Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Semi-Lobster

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
i.e. said:
I have worked with a few former AIDC technical people. alot of them were drawn back from US to work on IDF. really sharp guys.

too bad the political decision to moth ball the capability really guted AIDC. as for so many things in Taiwan, AIDC became a political tool instead of a serious opening into Aerospace industry.
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It's really a shame the state AIDC is in right now. Both the AT-3 and IDF were very promising designs, given the political implications around the Republic of China they would never exported but they could have been far more successful than they currently are now with proper funding but instead the politicians preferred to bank on the US and now what is Taiwan to do for its defence? It has lost the ability to produce its own fighter aircraft and no other country seems willing to sell them fighter aircraft. Their F-5E fleet is reaching the end of their of lifespan without a complete refurbishment and are becoming unsafe to fly. The Tiger 2000/2001 upgrade/refurbishment is dead. The ROCAF's Mirage 2000-5 fleet, while highly capable, has becoming increasingly expensive to operate. What options does the ROC left with? All they can do now is lobby the US for more F-16s which so far has gotten them nowhere and that trend seems to be future for any future lobbying efforts.
 
Aero_Wing_32

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member
some News at the early morning... ;)
ROCAF Planes land on motorway in Taiwan military drill
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US committed to Taiwan's defence; says decision on arms sales will not be swayed by China
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some good feedbacks about a possible F-16 deal?!
 
Semi-Lobster

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
Aero_Wing_32 said:
some News at the early morning... ;)
ROCAF Planes land on motorway in Taiwan military drill
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US committed to Taiwan's defence; says decision on arms sales will not be swayed by China
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some good feedbacks about a possible F-16 deal?!
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Its been a while a while, and I could be wrong, didn't Taiwan already pay for the F-16A/B upgrade already? Or was it just the US government approving the upgrade... can't remember
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
What a strange episode of argument about the RoC military in this thread recently.

Seriously, before the recent arms purchase from the US, when was the last time the RoC military bought anything from overseas? Certainly not during the Chen Shui Bian years. That makes the La Fayette frigates (from the 90s) the RoC Navy's most modern and advanced warship (not taking into account the locally built missile boats the got commissioned recently).

As for their air force, they really didn't do themselves any favour there. Blaming others for their own problem is rather self-serving and doesn't do anything to solve the issue of the lack of modern fighters. Continue to politicise it and blaming US for it and see if the US will bother to sell RoC what they need. Geez, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

As for the Rafale, I'd say that since it has not won any export orders yet despite numerous attempts (Singapore being 1 of their attempts), and given its comparatively small production run so far (120 orders so far), it will be quite a bit of a risk. Especially considering that it is more expensive than the comparably capable F-16s, where more than 4,000 have been produced.
 
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
Semi-Lobster said:
If Taiwan had properly supported and invested into AIDC during the 90s instead of letting it atrophy into the pathetic state its in now, they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place! Waiting for more F-16s was a political game the government was playing that they evidently have lost rather then supporting their indigenous aerospace industry. As of now, it would take a LOT of work and money to restart any IDF production and any sort of 'new' fighter design AIDC may claim it has can probably be dismissed as nothing more than a few computer models and sketches and would be over a decade away from any sort of flight test.
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Somehow, a lot of Taiwanese politicians have this mentality that they don't have to worry because the US will come to their rescue. This kind of mentality is displayed whenever these politicians talk about national defense on the island. While I understand that Taiwan thinks it is absolutely crucial to win the support from the US in a potential conflict with the Mainland, putting the safety of the island entirely in the hands of others would be a wrong move.

Yet, based on what they have been doing with AIDC and other domestic programs, it seems this is exactly what they are doing.
 
pugachev_diver

pugachev_diver

Banned Idiot
It's kind of funny that whenever the politicians discuss the possibility of mainland's invasion, they don't talk about a full scale defence plan, but rather how stick through two weeks is more than enough. Then the Americans would do the rest of the jobs.
Somehow this reminds me of the Italians during WWII.
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
pugachev_diver said:
It's kind of funny that whenever the politicians discuss the possibility of mainland's invasion, they don't talk about a full scale defence plan, but rather how stick through two weeks is more than enough. Then the Americans would do the rest of the jobs.
Somehow this reminds me of the Italians during WWII.
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And British Malaya (including Singapore) during WWII.

The impregnable fortress that the British proclaimed Singapore to be did not prove particularly difficult for the Japanese to conquer. And the hugely expensive naval base they built in Singapore wasn't particularly useful after the sinking of Force Z (HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse being the capital ships of Force Z). Those 2 ships are now popular with divers (for wreckage diving).

I guess history can be rather inconvenient when politics are involved.
 
Aero_Wing_32

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member
Spartan95 said:
What a strange episode of argument about the RoC military in this thread recently.

Seriously, before the recent arms purchase from the US, when was the last time the RoC military bought anything from overseas? Certainly not during the Chen Shui Bian years. That makes the La Fayette frigates (from the 90s) the RoC Navy's most modern and advanced warship (not taking into account the locally built missile boats the got commissioned recently).

As for their air force, they really didn't do themselves any favour there. Blaming others for their own problem is rather self-serving and doesn't do anything to solve the issue of the lack of modern fighters. Continue to politicise it and blaming US for it and see if the US will bother to sell RoC what they need. Geez, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

As for the Rafale, I'd say that since it has not won any export orders yet despite numerous attempts (Singapore being 1 of their attempts), and given its comparatively small production run so far (120 orders so far), it will be quite a bit of a risk. Especially considering that it is more expensive than the comparably capable F-16s, where more than 4,000 have been produced.
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The F-16 is really good. But it also has been sold under a lot of combat versions or configurations. And if you speak about the F-16 C/D, I do not think you can compare it with the french Rafale F3/F4, a totally multirole fighter, basically more manoeuvrable in dogfights, using more advanced systems as far as OSF, RBE2 AESA or SPECTRA that are strong assets to the french fighter. The other excellent aircraft along with these 2 possibilities: the SAAB Gripen. Also a great fighter.

But politically the context is terrible. Even worse than one year ago now. How can these european countries allow these military companies to make deal with Taiwan, regarding the terrible european debt crisis, with a strong China "investing" massively in european bonds, propping up Europe's economy... :( The same for the USA...
 
S

Skywatcher

Captain
Aero_Wing_32 said:
The F-16 is really good. But it also has been sold under a lot of combat versions or configurations. And if you speak about the F-16 C/D, I do not think you can compare it with the french Rafale F3/F4, a totally multirole fighter, basically more manoeuvrable in dogfights, using more advanced systems as far as OSF, RBE2 AESA or SPECTRA that are strong assets to the french fighter. The other excellent aircraft along with these 2 possibilities: the SAAB Gripen. Also a great fighter.

But politically the context is terrible. Even worse than one year ago now. How can these european countries allow these military companies to make deal with Taiwan, regarding the terrible european debt crisis, with a strong China "investing" massively in european bonds, propping up Europe's economy... :( The same for the USA...
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It would make more sense to compare the F/A-18E Super Hornet to the Rafale in all its models.
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
Aero_Wing_32 said:
The F-16 is really good. But it also has been sold under a lot of combat versions or configurations. And if you speak about the F-16 C/D, I do not think you can compare it with the french Rafale F3/F4, a totally multirole fighter, basically more manoeuvrable in dogfights, using more advanced systems as far as OSF, RBE2 AESA or SPECTRA that are strong assets to the french fighter.
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The F-16 is designed as a cheap fighter. Hence it is a lot more affordable, and yet comes with numerous configurations to suit the requirements of its users. On the other hand, the Rafale, while being a more modern design, is considerably more expensive.

Thus, on the issue of cost alone, a buyer can go for a larger number of F-16s, or a smaller number of Rafales using the same budget.

Beyond the issue of cost is why the Rafale has not secured any export orders till date despite its supposedly advanced systems? Even cash rich Saudi Arabia and UAE didn't buy the Rafale. Saudi Arabia went for the Eurofighter Typhoon. I'd say that's rather worrying for the Rafale since it has lost out on all the tenders it has entered into so far.

At least the Gripen has been sold to Thailand and have been received by the Royal Thai Air Force.
 
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