Taiwan "Han Kuang" exercises

Unit88 said:

Look guys, not being biased or anything but if Taiwan joins China, then everybody will be be happy. as of now, America is itching for a war with China, although they dont state it directly. I forgot in which article, but the UNiteed States declared that they will stand by Taiwan if IT becomes invaded, meaning that if China tries to unite Taiwan then war is an option. What i dont understand is what is so bad about Taiwan being annexed with China. What is so "evil" about the PRC that Taiwan fights so fiercly against?

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I have visited Taiwan many times. The people there want to be free. They do not want a communist government. They have been living as a defacto independent nation for over 50 years and have done well for themselves.

If the PRC moderates and adopts a constitutional republic that recognizes individual liberties and multiple political parties...I believe reunification will be a foregone conclusion.

But the people on Tawian have tasted that type of freedom and they will fight against have somethiung else imposed upon them. That's the basic issue.

I pray it can work itself out without conflict or bloodshed while retaining the basic liberties that the people of the ROC have...and seeing those same libertes extended to all Chinese.

Anyhow, in a nutshell...and not to be biased or anything... that is what is driving all the other issues IMHO.

In fact, PRC is a constitutional republic and recognizes individual liberties, but not multiple political parties in most of the country, except HK and Macao. PRC does not want a war for sure.

szbd said:

In fact, PRC is a constitutional republic and recognizes individual liberties, but not multiple political parties in most of the country, except HK and Macao. PRC does not want a war for sure.

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Well, I differ in my opinion of a constitutional republic and libeties.

If the people, in their religious beliefs, and particularly in their principle elected officials, including at the national level, are not free to choose their own path as long as it is peaceful and does not infringe on others...if they cannot create their own platforms, their own political ideologies, and then run on those platforms whether they are the CCP or not, whether they represent the CCPs ideology or not...then I would not call that a "Republic". By definition a republic represents the people and if the people cannot represent themselves as they see fit and then allow the voters to decide...well then, it is not very representative.

But that is just my opinion...but from my travels and many discussions with the people of Taiwan, I know it is along those lines that they seek representation in their government.

But now I am drifting too far into dreaded political and ideological discussions and I must defer to the rules of the forum and forebear.

As to the exercises and the matchups between the PRC and ROC in which the ROC seeks to maintain as much parity as possible, you may find of interest.

It is interesting to note (but not too surprising) that the vast majority of naval weapons systems the ROCN employs are US Naval vessels and systems that the ROCN has acquired. The new Kee Lung class (Ex-Kidd Class) being the foremost of these.

Jeff, I think you need to count missile boats in your list.

Currently, PLA is clearly having an edge over ROC in military strength, quality and quantity. But an invasion to Taiwan is far from easy, so PLA is still building up. Again, I don't think mainland China will initiate the war.

szbd said:

Currently, PLA is clearly having an edge over ROC in military strength, quality and quantity.

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I'm not sure one can say the PLA definitely has a qualitative advantage. But more importantly although the PLA itself is larger, issues to do with what it could spare for a war and what it could deploy to the conflict zone at any one time are important.

Again, I don't think mainland China will initiate the war.

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I'm sure if a war did happen, China would claim it had not started things. That doesn't mean any other country would believe it. Also it certainly would strike the first blow militarily - that's something it could not avoid. In that sense it would have to initiate the war.

FuManChu said:

I'm not sure one can say the PLA definitely has a qualitative advantage. But more importantly although the PLA itself is larger, issues to do with what it could spare for a war and what it could deploy to the conflict zone at any one time are important.

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Shall we do a one to one comparison? Of course, even if we clearly found the qualitative advantage of PLA in equipments, somebody will jump out and claim the forever-advanced-western-doctrine of ROC forces.

FuManChu said:

I'm sure if a war did happen, China would claim it had not started things. That doesn't mean any other country would believe it. Also it certainly would strike the first blow militarily - that's something it could not avoid. In that sense it would have to initiate the war.

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Remember, this is an incomplete civil war. PRC has clearly and consistently stated under what circumstances the war will be restart. So, it's all Taiwan's choice.

szbd said:

Shall we do a one to one comparison?

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That isn't the point of this thread - I was merely asserting my own POV after you made a blanket statement.

Remember, this is an incomplete civil war. PRC has clearly and consistently stated under what circumstances the war will be restart. So, it's all Taiwan's choice.

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That isn't quite true. The CCP and KMT were having the Civil war, not Taiwan or the DPP. So unless the KMT get re-elected your argument is not valid.

Besides the grounds on which the war "will be restart" are very flexible, to the point where China can decide to start it at any point, regardless of whether Taiwan does anything "wrong" or not.

FuManChu said:

That isn't the point of this thread - I was merely asserting my own POV after you made a blanket statement.



That isn't quite true. The CCP and KMT were having the Civil war, not Taiwan or the DPP. So unless the KMT get re-elected your argument is not valid.

Besides the grounds on which the war "will be restart" are very flexible, to the point where China can decide to start it at any point, regardless of whether Taiwan does anything "wrong" or not.

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:coffee: This is a very special point I must say. What I always understand is, every civil war is about taking the whole country, not one party beat another.

szbd said:

:coffee: This is a very special point I must say. What I always understand is, every civil war is about taking the whole country, not one party beat another.

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There can't be two parties governing the country, so it is about one party beating another in China's case. China wants peace and time to develop its economy and military, so it will not invite trouble. However, the Communist Party might force Taiwan's leaders to the negotiating table sometime, because this status quo can't last forever.

Ryz05 said:

There can't be two parties governing the country, so it is about one party beating another in China's case.

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More than one party can govern different parts of the country, though, even if there is one central government.

However, the Communist Party might force Taiwan's leaders to the negotiating table sometime, because this status quo can't last forever.

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Taiwanese leaders are happy to negotiate - they just wanted to be treated fairly and not have China insist they're "criminals", "scum", "traitors" and/or generally be treated like shit. For some reason China thinks bullying them and slagging them off will make them more likely to do what it wants.

Currently the only side with red-lines that must be adhered to is China. Taiwan has no red lines and has offered talks repeatedly. So it is China that has to come to the negotiating table - Taiwan is already sitting at it.