Taiwan´s ROCAF wants to buy 66 F-16C/D Block 52

I do know that almaz has stated that certain generations of s300 can be used so the missile is fired in complete radar silence, guided via datalink fed data based on any outside sources like AEW or ground control radars, etc. Then, when missile is thought to be just seconds away from the target, s300's guidance radars come online for terminal guidance. Pilots are said to have very little time to do any counter measures.

Of course, I would expect pac-2 (and up) and tk-2 to have similar capabilities.

Latest news regarding the Taiwan purchase of F-16's. It got suspended by the US:

n 2001 the United States offered to sell a previous weapons package, but opposition lawmakers have blocked a special budget to buy the arms in parliament, where they hold a slim majority, claiming the package is unnecessary and expensive.

That package included eight diesel-electric submarines, 12 P-3C Orion anti-submarine aircraft and Patriot anti-missile systems.

As a result of those delays,
President George W. Bush had declined to approve the F-16 sale, said the Taiwan defense department official on condition of anonymity.

"The special arms package still has not been passed. Once it is passed, this case (for the F-16s) will be approved," said the official, citing comments by National Defense Minister Lee Jye made a day earlier during parliamentary questions.

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F-16c/d

Hey guys,

Ive been busy with college classes and work but I am happy to be able to post. My favorite US fighter aircraft was recently retired this month, the F-14D. Sad to see them go. Was able to see the F-22 again this weekend and was very impressed with a MiG-23. What an engine that bird has!

This conversation interested me as I love the direct US rival to the F-16, The F/A-18 Hornet. Both birds are similar in capabilities yet the cheaper price has seen the Falcon produced at vastly larger numbers. F-16Cs and F/A-18C share a boost in capability from new components and weapons. The Falcon was always limited in BVR until the addition of the AIM-120. The USAF is currently retiring F-16 ADF Falcons which were for the most part, stripped down Interceptor versions which were only used in State Air National Guard units. They employed the AIM7s were taking on fighters was less likely. Bombers and crusie missiles were the main threats.

As far as the AIM-120s go, they are excellent BVR (and surprisingly ACM) weapons. They are lighter than the AIM-7s, and as such allow more to be carried and give a smaller weight and drag penalty. I am not sure why the US Govt would limit the number sold to the ROCAF to such a small amount. I can only guess that there is an agreement that more would be made availible if needed.

As far as the F-16C for the ROCAF, I am curious about the capabilities of the ROCAF pilots. How often does an individual pilot fly? Depending on the squadron, one can pretty much make a good guess about the training of a USAF or USN pilot. Does the ROCAF operate graduate level training schools such as the US Navy Strike and Air Warface Center or the USAF "Red Flag" excersise?

While the F-16C is very capable it depends on several factors to see if it would complete its' mission. First would be how the aircraft is armed, how the pilot is trainined and what situation is the aircraft/pilot dealing with.

The AIM120 is very much superior to the AIM7 is many cases. The abililty to fire many weapons and once at various targets while manuvering is one of these. However the warhead of the AIM7 is much larger. Get hit with one and it's over. If the AIM7 is used correctly, it can work as advertised. As for the ROCAF.

F-16Cs are good improvement over the current ROCAF F-16As and F-5s. Barring the employment of the AIM120, support from GCI and airborne CC, survival would depend on the way the new Falcons would be used, armed and flown.

Re: F-16c/d

Raven said:

I am not sure why the US Govt would limit the number sold to the ROCAF to such a small amount. I can only guess that there is an agreement that more would be made availible if needed.

As far as the F-16C for the ROCAF, I am curious about the capabilities of the ROCAF pilots. How often does an individual pilot fly? Depending on the squadron, one can pretty much make a good guess about the training of a USAF or USN pilot. Does the ROCAF operate graduate level training schools such as the US Navy Strike and Air Warface Center or the USAF "Red Flag" excersise?

Barring the employment of the AIM120, support from GCI and airborne CC, survival would depend on the way the new Falcons would be used, armed and flown.

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The US Government had a tacit "agreement" with China in that it would not provide AR homing missiles to Taiwan until China had procured technology on the same level. After China got the R-77, deliveries of the AIM-120 which belonged to Taiwan but were stored in the States began.

I haven't been able to find any concrete numbers regarding flight hours for ROCAF pilots so I can only give you an impression I got when living in Taichung; the Ching-Chuan-Kang airfield was nearby, and every single day I would have continuous flights of F-CK-1s flying overhead... I can't speak for other airfields, but if this is any indication of how much flight time ROCAF pilots get, it should be a respectable amount. Though the ROCAF does not have its own dedicated flight combat training school, the F-16 pilots are regularly sent to Luke's AFB in the US for special training.

While the ROCAF has been pretty low-key regarding tactics to be used in a possible anti-air defense, considering the location of the "Alamo" (Hualien AFB) I would think that the fighters would be used more like missile trucks than anything else; so a success rate would greatly depend on how well air units coordinate with ground radar; so they don't have to continuously provide an airborne radar illuminating target for PLAAF fighters.

As far as the F-16C for the ROCAF, I am curious about the capabilities of the ROCAF pilots. How often does an individual pilot fly? Depending on the squadron, one can pretty much make a good guess about the training of a USAF or USN pilot. Does the ROCAF operate graduate level training schools such as the US Navy Strike and Air Warface Center or the USAF "Red Flag" excersise?

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Ultimately, the ability of the individual won't help if the military doesn't have plans for winning. Taiwan has no plan for winning a conflict. Their priority has been defense and only recently have they been shifting that.

Even in this they fall short. They stockpile ground weapons and small arms, but have dangerously low supplies for their air force and navy. As a fighting force they'd likely only to be able to operate for a week at best in the air and sea. After that there'd be such a huge disadvantage they would end up giving air dominance and sea dominance to China. This is considering just if they started getting shot down and sunk when they ran out of munitions, which is stretching it.

Also, the military strategy in Taiwan has been almost completely focused on defense. Even if they have better pilots, which isn't automatically true just because they have more hours, they lack the necessary munitions and strategic oversight to have a prolonged conflict.

Vlad Plasmius said:

Ultimately, the ability of the individual won't help if the military doesn't have plans for winning. Taiwan has no plan for winning a conflict. Their priority has been defense and only recently have they been shifting that.

Even in this they fall short. They stockpile ground weapons and small arms, but have dangerously low supplies for their air force and navy. As a fighting force they'd likely only to be able to operate for a week at best in the air and sea. After that there'd be such a huge disadvantage they would end up giving air dominance and sea dominance to China. This is considering just if they started getting shot down and sunk when they ran out of munitions, which is stretching it.

Also, the military strategy in Taiwan has been almost completely focused on defense. Even if they have better pilots, which isn't automatically true just because they have more hours, they lack the necessary munitions and strategic oversight to have a prolonged conflict.

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Don't forget the low fuel reserves of Taiwan. Taiwan apparantly from my research only has 18 days worth of fuel reserves in times of peace. In the event of a war, the Chinese will surely blockade Taiwanese ports and will try to bomb Taiwanese fuel depots which will severely cut into Taiwanese fuel reserves.