Jura The idiot
General
pardon me?
Superhornet (f/a18e/f) & Growler (ea-18g) Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Jura.
They are more or less saying why launch a sixth gen at all when you can bolt on parts to the fourth gens.
India is.... India is impossible to predict on what they are up to and Kuwait is about the only possible sure bet.
This is a Sales pitch from Boeing to keep the Super Hornet line open.
Basically, Boeing is playing up the Conservative nature in hopes that they can convince the Navy not to go all in on F35 in favor of a further upgraded Super Hornet.
They are more or less saying why launch a sixth gen at all when you can bolt on parts to the fourth gens.
And here we see them pitching a signature reduction, Not Stealth but some. Even the Author sees it.
Yet boeing has to grudgingly admit
Yet that could be killed if the Navy decides in the 2020's to prioritize on FA-XX and terminate the F/A 18 series. That would kill half of Boeing's Fighter line leaving the Eagles but with the Japanese, South Korean and Turkish fighter programs as well as Eurofighter Typhoon mean that the Dominate position of the Eagle is slipping.
Right here is Boeing's dream. But they Fear that as time moves ahead and F35 fills out more by the 2030's we could see a Super lightning take more of the Super Hornet's seat. That would be the death of Boeing in Carrier aviation unless they can take a F/A-XX assuming that a Super Lightning is not the F/A-XX. One of the options the Navy has looked at is using a upgraded uprated F35 for the F/A-XX mission sets.
Right now Boeing Dominates the Decks of USN Carriers.
Here we see Boeing's fears. They hope for contracts but Australia is starting to Flirt with the Idea of a pure Fifth gen fleet by the late 2020's. Canada is up in the Air (proverbially) the Author is wrong Canada has no Super hornets yet, they have a memorandum for a few units but that could change.
India is.... India is impossible to predict on what they are up to and Kuwait is about the only possible sure bet.
Almost all of this is for the Block 3 which extends the service life maybe to the midpoint of the 2020's but that is not assuring Boeing a long profitable existence.
Last edited:
The advanced Super Hornet is a good aircraft...and they can upgrade the F/A-18Fs to it, and the Growlers to the same (outside of the ECM pylons).
So, I would have the Nay finish out the Growlers, maybe by as many as 50-70 of the new Advancd Hornets, but then start upgrading the older Hornets as they put those 50-70 out there.
But DO NOT consider lowering the F-35C numbers at all.
So, I would have the Nay finish out the Growlers, maybe by as many as 50-70 of the new Advancd Hornets, but then start upgrading the older Hornets as they put those 50-70 out there.
But DO NOT consider lowering the F-35C numbers at all.
Jura The idiot
General
I liked what the gentleman quoted inside that article said:
“For the Navy, and I think for a lot of countries, don’t lock yourself into a 20-year development cycle and a platform you’re stuck with for X amount of years,” says Larry Burt, a former naval aviator and now Boeing’s director of global sales and marketing for global strike programs. “Don’t make a big revolutionary step. Keep evolving what you’ve got. You could keep evolving the mission systems, sensors and capability of the Super Hornet and maybe eventually put a new wrapper on it.”
Burt says low-observable aircraft like the and F-35 are extremely difficult to upgrade and install new capabilities without breaking the outer mold line, whereas traditional wing body designs like the F/A-18 and are relatively easy and cost-effective to upgrade.
For power yes 8 tons of weapons all the panoply and for A2A combat with new AESA radar with up to 12 AAMs a good bird nevertheless radar less good than APG-81 and again more APG-77 vs 5 m2 range 190 km vs 240 and 300 km, 1100 modules against 1500 and 1956...
But he have 2 weakness an agility enough medium turn rates clearly inferior than her rivals not very nervous, rate of climb, 228 m/s F-15/16, 260.
And for a fighter of 30 tons a range enough limited in fact similar to F-16 which do only 22 tons.
But he is cheaper.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Well Erne says... JK
The problem with what he is saying is he is making a point from a fourth generation fighter and pushing it into a fifth.
His argument is more about bolt on pods and modules like the Lantern targeting pod. When the fighters that sported these targeting pods were introduced in the 70s and 80s those pods did not exist. So they took the fighter punched holes in it , snaked the wiring into the avionics and bolted on the pods.
In the case of fifth gems like the F35, the idea is that those type of sensors are already built into the fighter, and if it needs an upgrade you would remove the existing unit like the EOTS and replace it with a new module of the same shape and connections yet with the new tech.
Now eventually yes the F35 and F22 will have new systems installed that are not module swaps, like say lasers, but when that happens what you would likely see is that they would remove existing skin panels, wire in the new parts and then replace the old panels with new ones that allow use of the new parts.
That's the difference between 4th generation aircraft and the 4.5th models that they bolted on sensors. And the 5th generation wher te sensors are already built into the avionics.
Can ' t read poor white European guy here hehewhat you mean ?
Boeing have enough orders for several years now build 2 by month, 24/year.
Recently 12 new Super Hornet for USN + 5 new before in more the 563 of initials lots, remains at less 20 - 30 Growlers, (116 del in 09/2015 on 160 ) - meantime the 12 for RAAF build -
surely a new order for Kuwaitis again for USN very possible at less 30 - 40 sure US Navy Aviation want for 3 VFA : 36 and some for reserve, mentionned in different articles a total of 30 - 40 up to 100 dépends F-35C number and budget...
Anyway more than doubtfull Boeing F-18 production line to St-Louis ( F-4, 15 before build there ) remains active up to a 6th generation fighter not build before 2030 with max 100 units for USN and even saying 100 others Growlers again to produce and Super-Hornet for foreign customers saying a total of 200 so 8 years of production the line is closed in 2025 in this case and Boeing will not be able to make the junction with a futur fighter if she win the contract* ... surely a hiatus of minimum about 5 years.
*A deal for about 400 - 450 for replaced 190 F-22 plus 230 F-15E quite sure F-15C is also replaced by F-35A.
But i hope an other programm than the F-35 for 3 services with all these problems... ! in more for Air Fans much more pleasant have several designs considering also in the futur normaly less new types will be built, the F-35C is a bit different but few.
Last edited:
Jura The idiot
General
at first I wanted to ask about Raptor's EOTS
but I think it's better to leave it in your Perfect Next Generation World ... the title of that article iswhich is obviously important warning in the real world ... but who knows, maybe those US Wunderwaffen like F-35s, Zumwalts, Fords are worth waiting for ... is all I have to say now EDIT except I personally doubt it
Last edited:
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I used EOTS form the Lightning as an Example but Hereat first I wanted to ask about Raptor's EOTS
Here is F35 with EOTS. blended into the body from the start of design, Not perfect it needs an upgrade. wich will require removing the nose pulling the old one out and installing a new model but it was there from the start.
Here is the ATFLIR on an FA18E. Now Advantage It adds Thermal Camera, Low light, TV Electro optics, Laser targeting designation, Laser spot tracker. disadvantage if you mount it you use one of the Aircraft's AMRAAM Stations. Add in a Fuel tank with the INST21 on your FA18E and now you have have 9 hardpoints.
Every external pod you add subtracts a weapon you could carry.
And here is a Kicker, Boeing knows it and even as Burt is Talking about the advantage of bolt on upgrades Boeing was looking at trying to fit a EOTS like setup in the FA18.
See it right under the nose An EOTS like system on the Hornet concept work for the Advanced Super Hornet.
Why is he talking about Bolt on? because the Navy Block 3 lacks such instead mounting the INST21 on the centerline Fuel tank which in the ASH is a weapons pod.
Jura The idiot
General
I know I said I would leave it for now, but somewhere around this point:
I've realized something crucial which I didn't mention and which is the ability to integrate new hardware INTO THE AIRCRAFT SOFTWARE ... depending on the software development team (I've heard that assigned to F-35 is not good/big enough, have no idea about Boeing), the software complexity (eight million LOC , have no idea about Boeing), the software character (open source hahaha or proprietary ... how two proprietary pieces of software can be glued ...) etc., the integration can be "pretty easy" up to "very tough"
EDIT
adding
Feb 16, 2017
I've realized something crucial which I didn't mention and which is the ability to integrate new hardware INTO THE AIRCRAFT SOFTWARE ... depending on the software development team (I've heard that assigned to F-35 is not good/big enough, have no idea about Boeing), the software complexity (eight million LOC , have no idea about Boeing), the software character (open source hahaha or proprietary ... how two proprietary pieces of software can be glued ...) etc., the integration can be "pretty easy" up to "very tough"
EDIT
adding
Feb 16, 2017
which could mean additional issues for F-35s in this context
Last edited: