Sukhoi passes into obselence as the 50th Raptor is delivered.

bd popeye

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Excellent thread gents!..Excellent response to Skycom post Totoro...

The F-22 Raptor is ready to deploy. No other nation has an aircrfat like this . No one. Maybe some space aliens do.:) The US has 50. The first wing is now operational and ready to deploy from Langley AFB. Please read the USAF link about the Raptor the links are beow.....

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US deploys new top fighter jet By Jim Wolf
Fri Dec 16, 2:43 AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The futuristic F-22A "Raptor" fighter jet, designed to dominate the skies well into the 21st century, joined the U.S. combat fleet on Thursday, 20 years after it was conceived to fight Soviet MiGs over Europe.

The Air Force said "initial operational capability" had been achieved at the 1st Fighter Wing's 27th Fighter Squadron at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia.

Pilots in the squadron, the Air Force's oldest in continuous operation, have been training on the F-22, the Air Force's most advanced weapon system, for about a year.

"If we go to war tomorrow, the Raptor will go with us," Gen. Ronald Keys, head of the Air Force's Air Combat command, said in a statement. He said an initial group of 12 was ready for combat worldwide or for homeland defense.

The squadron may swing through the Pacific next year, probably flying from Guam and elsewhere, though no decision has been made about where to best "showcase" it, Keys said in a later teleconference with reporters.

With the Soviet Union gone, defense analysts have cast the F-22 as the weapon of choice for any future U.S. conflict with China, for instance over Taiwan.

"There is a clear role for F-22 here," said Daniel Goure, a former Pentagon strategist now at the Lexington Institute, an Arlington, Virginia, research group with close ties to the U.S. defense establishment.

The aircraft's role is to "kick the doors down" in a conflict, as Pentagon officials put it, knocking out defenses on the ground and in the air to clear the way for other warplanes and forces.

The radar-evading Raptor is twice as reliable and three times more effective than the F-15C Eagle it is replacing as the top U.S. air-to-air fighter, according to Lockheed Martin Corp., its developer.

"It's a fighter pilot's dream," said former F-15 pilot Col. Walter Givhan, lauding the plane's integrated avionics, stealth and speed. Givhan is wing commander at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, where the latest round of F-22 testing was completed.

Lockheed described the fighter as the world's most advanced and said it was "relevant for the next 40 years."

Boeing Co. and Northrop Grumman Corp. are top F-22 subcontractors. United Technologies Corp.'s Pratt & Whitney unit makes the aircraft's two engines.

STEALTHY AND SUPERSONIC

The Raptor combines low-observability, or stealth, with supersonic speed, agility and cockpit displays designed to boost greatly pilots' awareness of the situation around them.

At a "fly-away" cost of about $130 million each for the most recent batch, not including research and development, it is also one of the most controversial U.S. warplanes ever.

Critics have termed it unaffordable overkill in a world without the potential threat of a Soviet Union able to send swarms of MiGs into a dogfight, which prompted its inception in 1986.

The Air Force is planning to stretch F-22 production until 2010 to keep Lockheed's production line open pending arrival of its more affordable F-35 Joint Strike Fighter family of aircraft that will also go to the Navy, the Marines and co-developing nations that include Britain, Italy and Turkey.

The F-22 also has a ground attack capability to drop 250-pound (113.5-kg), small-diameter bombs or 1,000-pound (454-kg) Joint Direct Attack Munitions while flying at supersonic speeds.

Gen. Michael Moseley, the Air Force chief of staff, has said the F-22 is needed against threats such as Russian-built surface-to-air missiles sold overseas.

Moseley said on Tuesday he hoped to buy 183 F-22s, four more than currently in the budget and enough for seven combat-ready squadrons, down from the 750 F-22s once planned.

Final assembly has been completed on 67 of the 107 F-22s already purchased by the Air Force, Lockheed's program manager, Larry Lawson, said in a statement.
 
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tphuang

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Some thoughts on this. F-22 is worth every penny of whatever the cost is. Right now, it costs 70 million to buy a F-16 block 50+. Even if F-22 cost $400 million per purchase, it is still well worth it, because it can take down 8 of them before they even see F-22. As for the ratio of 10:1 vs su-35, it actually makes no difference that F-22 can only carry 8 AAMs, because it's likely that after it fires off all 8 of its AAMs, the remaining flankers still would not be able to detect it, so it can go back to the base to refuel and reload AMRAAMs. Let's just say that 180 F-22s are built, then I would say the cost per F-22 will probably be $350 million. Yeah, I know that it includes the development cost, but every product that is in the market takes in consideration of the development cost. How much does it cost to produce a music CD? The amount of money that we pay for the CD definitely includes all the development and marketting costs. Same with F-22 and F-16, you can't ignore the development cost.
 

coolieno99

Junior Member
Totoro said:
. Will, for example, a permanent home for at least one of them be on okinawa or perhaps guam?

Comments and guesses are welcome :D

Its best to target the F-22s sitting on the airfield in Guam or Okinawa with DF-21 ballistic missiles, air-launched Cruise missiles, and sub-launched cruise missiles. In fact, one don't even have to hit the F-22s, just destroy the airfield runways and the F-22s can't takeoff and land and become $ 250 million taxpayer's headaches. :coffee:
 

ahho

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tphuang said:
Some thoughts on this. F-22 is worth every penny of whatever the cost is. Right now, it costs 70 million to buy a F-16 block 50+. Even if F-22 cost $400 million per purchase, it is still well worth it, because it can take down 8 of them before they even see F-22. As for the ratio of 10:1 vs su-35, it actually makes no difference that F-22 can only carry 8 AAMs, because it's likely that after it fires off all 8 of its AAMs, the remaining flankers still would not be able to detect it, so it can go back to the base to refuel and reload AMRAAMs. Let's just say that 180 F-22s are built, then I would say the cost per F-22 will probably be $350 million. Yeah, I know that it includes the development cost, but every product that is in the market takes in consideration of the development cost. How much does it cost to produce a music CD? The amount of money that we pay for the CD definitely includes all the development and marketting costs. Same with F-22 and F-16, you can't ignore the development cost.

I have a small question, did they use f-22 to go against su-35 to get those result?? Also (i am not familiar with radar) but like someone else in this forum has said, wouldn't turning on the active data and data link would give out the f-22 position??
 

tphuang

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F-22 doesn't really need to turn on data link. It can operate on its own. Besides, having radar transmission coming out of it can only make it more detectable, but that doesn't mean it will be detectable for other planes.

I think the results are just simulations. However, if you read about how well F-22s did against F-15s, I don't think it's hard to swallow that it can have a 10:! kill ratio against su-35.
 

bd popeye

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coolieno99 said:
Its best to target the F-22s sitting on the airfield in Guam or Okinawa with DF-21 ballistic missiles, air-launched Cruise missiles, and sub-launched cruise missiles. In fact, one don't even have to hit the F-22s, just destroy the airfield runways and the F-22s can't takeoff and land and become $ 250 million taxpayer's headaches. :coffee:

Really? Newsflash! Any sort of ballistic or cruise missile attack on US territory would bring a response from the US with consequences that no nation would want to suffer.

Do you really think that the PRC would launch an attack against Guam or Hawaii with ballistic missiles knowing full well the consequenses of this action? Do you think the US would sit back and not retaliate in kind against such an attack?
 

MIGleader

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it be really nice if the chinese could mkae a missle that just destroyed the f-22s, leaving the spot of airfield underneath them untouched.

a chiense cruise missle attack would not provoke nuclear retaliation. it was a nice bluff back in the cold war days, but simply wont happen. things will be tense, but no nuclear retaliation. the u.s would be free to respond with non nuclear weapons.
 

tphuang

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bd popeye said:
Really? Newsflash! Any sort of ballistic or cruise missile attack on US territory would bring a response from the US with consequences that no nation would want to suffer.

Do you really think that the PRC would launch an attack against Guam or Hawaii with ballistic missiles knowing full well the consequenses of this action? Do you think the US would sit back and not retaliate in kind against such an attack?
PRC would probably launch such an attack on guam, if Americans start targetting China's mainland. Let's hope that doesn't happen. I can't really see America will launch nuclear retaliation if the incoming missile is a LACM, they'd probably return the favour with some tomahawk LACM.
 

Totoro

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bd popeye said:
Really? Newsflash! Any sort of ballistic or cruise missile attack on US territory would bring a response from the US with consequences that no nation would want to suffer.

Do you really think that the PRC would launch an attack against Guam or Hawaii with ballistic missiles knowing full well the consequenses of this action? Do you think the US would sit back and not retaliate in kind against such an attack?

Well, chances are such an attack would follow only after US has attacked chinese forces. otherwise it'd be silly to risk it. Besides, guam is a little bit far away. I see okinawa being put out of action by chinese, if it comes to full scale conventional war. Am not so sure about guam, but anything's possible i guess...
 

EternalVigil

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Here are a few clips about the F-22 one is from heritage day back in 2004 when tyndall AFB started getting Raptors for operational testing. I wont comment on the hypothetical scenerios but I think the US would do more than just launch a tomahawk or 2. ;)

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