Sukhoi passes into obselence as the 50th Raptor is delivered.

vincelee said:

not really invisible. some basic calculations show that a radar of the type 1473 class can detect it at 2.2 km. Assuming it gets that close.

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should be greater than that, more like 20 KM. For N011M,
140KM vs 1 m^2 target,
using 0.0027 m^2 target like F-22, it would be 140 / (400)^0.25 = 31 KM detection range.

the su-27 seiries is not done with yet. for one thing, you can get nearly 25 su-27s with the money you can get five f-22's with.
an country like china or russia may be able to fit an su-27 with a much more capable radr and avionics, tvc, and plasma stealth in the future, considerably extending the life of the plane.
if only china owned sukoi, it could be making pak fas like hell!

The Raptor is a leap forward in capability necessary to maintain our ability to own the high ground for the next four decades.

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4 decades!?!?!?!
No way, that must be an exageration.
And Akula, sorry to break it to you, but the F-22 would pwn Flankers like nobody's buisness. I'll be generous and give you a 1:4 kill ratio of F-22 vs Flankers.

the su-27 seiries is not done with yet. for one thing, you can get nearly 25 su-27s with the money you can get five f-22's with.

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Why didn't you just say you can get nearly 5 Su-27s for the money you can get 1 F-22 with?

MIGleader said:

the su-27 seiries is not done with yet. for one thing, you can get nearly 25 su-27s with the money you can get five f-22's with.
an country like china or russia may be able to fit an su-27 with a much more capable radr and avionics, tvc, and plasma stealth in the future, considerably extending the life of the plane.
if only china owned sukoi, it could be making pak fas like hell!

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well, PAK FA is not scheduled to test fly until 2008/2009. With the shortage in fund, maybe even that goal won't be reached. You can fit su-27 with better radar and avionics to the level of su-35, but it still lacks:
- supercruise capability
- stealth
- AESA radar

well, for 1 billion busks, china buys 25 su-27's. american can only get 5 f-22's.
lets see, with 50 f-22s. that means america already spent 10 billion on it!!!

MIGleader said:

well, for 1 billion busks, china buys 25 su-27's. american can only get 5 f-22's.
lets see, with 50 f-22s. that means america already spent 10 billion on it!!!

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the development cost is 64 billion and counting.

I think we're forgetting the rumored active cancellation on the F-22, which is done in real time I believe.

i doubt the u.s would cancel its billion$ project just when it got finished, but i do see more cutbacks. the jsf has the most uncertain fate.

MIGleader said:

well, for 1 billion busks, china buys 25 su-27's. american can only get 5 f-22's.
lets see, with 50 f-22s. that means america already spent 10 billion on it!!!

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I'll take my chances with 5 F-22 with Awacs support vs 25 SU 27.
If F-22 can win you air superiority that is $64 billion well spent.

don't let your love of su-35 cloud your judgement here

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Well, the same i would say to you.

the pilot of F15-C said that if F-22 pilot is having a good day, there is no way F-15C can shoot it down.

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F-15C could hardly intercept Su-27 as well, this is not an argument.

US fighters have time and time again demostrated their superiority towards their RUssian counterparts. This was during the time when the Soviet Union have 300 billion dollar plus defence budget. What makes you think that they can come out with someting that can beat the F-22 now that their budget is fractions of what it was.

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In fact real soviet military spendings were much lower. And US fighters have never demonstrated superiority. The first fairfight between Soviet and american fighters i can remember was in Vietnam, and i assume that it's clear, who held the superiority.

F-22 has radar far more advance than what the Russians can field.

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All this bragging about US having better systems... Well, it's questionable in fact. As i said many times before sophisticated doesn't mean good. And speaking of radars, we do not have actual characteristics.

F-22 is invisible to radar.

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Hardly.

F-22 has super cruise capability

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What is this? Could you describe, how does it work?

F-22 has thrust vectoring capability

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Russian planes have better maneuverability anyway.

F-22 has superior thrust to weight ratio

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In fact - NO. Remember, i said "advanced Su-27 versions"? I didn't mean exactly Su-35, AL-41F engine has 18500kgf thrust (PW-F119 has 15880).

And Akula, sorry to break it to you, but the F-22 would pwn Flankers like nobody's buisness. I'll be generous and give you a 1:4 kill ratio of F-22 vs Flankers

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Nobody could break something like this to me, i am VVS officer. I would give 1:2 at maximum. Those planes do not differ much.

And by the way, speaking of missiles, R-77 has better characteristics, then AIM-120.