Speculation and facts on future Chinese vessels

Maggern

Junior Member
Actually I did, to a certain degree. Rumors of such a weapon has been floating around Chinese military forums for quite a while now.

You mean hey-I'm-a-fanboy-and-I-think-this-might-be-real-like-the-earthquake-gun-of-the-US-and-the-international-conspiracy-of-space-reptiles, or do you mean there's actually indication of a serious effort in design and prototypization, outside mere studies on the US airborne laser system? Frankly, at the level laser technology is nowadays, I don't see how it would be small and effective enough to have any place in a saturation defense. Most likely, for it to be strong enough to knock out missiles (physically knocking them out, most likely the missiles within range would be in terminal guidance, hence blinding them or disabling controls would be of little use), it would be so large they would have to dedicate a whole ship to that sole role, which would make it yet another target to be protected (what would the energy demand even be? Is this even feasible without nuclear reactors? People are still discussing whether EMAL is possible without nuclear reactors)

As with all laser technology, I'm sure there's some studies into it. Technology advances rapidly in this area. But I don't see laser-equipped ships protecting a carrier in the Indian Ocean any time soon (though considering the open time frame of sinosoldier, I guess we cannot rule it out).

EDIT: Why am I even discussing this with myself? Even sinosoldier has waved it off as fanboy speculation...
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
You mean hey-I'm-a-fanboy-and-I-think-this-might-be-real-like-the-earthquake-gun-of-the-US-and-the-international-conspiracy-of-space-reptiles, or do you mean there's actually indication of a serious effort in design and prototypization, outside mere studies on the US airborne laser system? Frankly, at the level laser technology is nowadays, I don't see how it would be small and effective enough to have any place in a saturation defense. Most likely, for it to be strong enough to knock out missiles (physically knocking them out, most likely the missiles within range would be in terminal guidance, hence blinding them or disabling controls would be of little use), it would be so large they would have to dedicate a whole ship to that sole role, which would make it yet another target to be protected (what would the energy demand even be? Is this even feasible without nuclear reactors? People are still discussing whether EMAL is possible without nuclear reactors)

As with all laser technology, I'm sure there's some studies into it. Technology advances rapidly in this area. But I don't see laser-equipped ships protecting a carrier in the Indian Ocean any time soon (though considering the open time frame of sinosoldier, I guess we cannot rule it out).

EDIT: Why am I even discussing this with myself? Even sinosoldier has waved it off as fanboy speculation...

I would have dismissed it as fanboy nonsense (I usually do with claims like these) but the guy who leaked it, peishens, is a well respected "leaker" on CD who leaked J-20's first flight. I think it is good to maintain a healthy skepticism of such matters but when you have a reputable source like peishens you have to reevaluate your skepticism.

The U.S. is working on a similar system for ship defence, the Centurion and the tests so far are successful. They've tested it against drones and even unmanned boats and achieved promising results. Can't help but wonder when they are going to test it against cruise missiles.
 

Engineer

Major
Laser weaponry have been discussed by various big shrimps for years, so it isn't your usual fanboy speculation.

siegecrossbow, originally they said lasers would be installed on home grown aircraft carriers, but last I heard that plan was scrapped and the role of laser defense were to be assumed by the escorts, and I assume by escorts they meant 052D.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
I assume you are referring to the
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This ship has 128 VLS cells (80 Mk.41 + 48 K-VLS) to carry those 128 missile. It also has a max displacement of 11,000 tons!

128 YJ-12 missiles in 96 VLS tubes? :confused: YJ-12 is said to be some top secret supersonic antiship cruise missile. I don't expect this missile to be small. Seen how big surface launched supersonic ASCMs are?

Here is the Mk 41 to compare -
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Hence the 128 missiles on the Type 052D. With tonnage approximately 10000 tons, 128 missiles won't be too much of a difficulty.

The YJ-12 is not top secret. It's basically a supersonic anti ship missile. Heck, there's even a Wikipedia page on it, although we all know the accuracy of Wikipedia's information.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Laser weaponry have been discussed by various big shrimps for years, so it isn't your usual fanboy speculation.

siegecrossbow, originally they said lasers would be installed on home grown aircraft carriers, but last I heard that plan was scrapped and the role of laser defense were to be assumed by the escorts, and I assume by escorts they meant 052D.

O.O
That would be... impressive, considering not even the USN has active plans to install lasers on their ships... Unless we're going to see 052D in 2030 or the laser that will be installed is just a soft kill system or something.

As much as I want to, I currently do not possess a ship borne laser system.

He's saying that the vessels you listed are also blogger speculation.

Hence the 128 missiles on the Type 052D. With tonnage approximately 10000 tons, 128 missiles won't be too much of a difficulty.

The YJ-12 is not top secret. It's basically a supersonic anti ship missile. Heck, there's even a Wikipedia page on it, although we all know the accuracy of Wikipedia's information.

The problem is that you said 052D will only have 96 VLS cells... you can't fit 128 missiles into 96 VLS cells unless they are quad packed or something.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The three S. Korean KDX-III are very impressive vessels. Super Arleigh Burkes. Here's my very detailed page about them...on my site about all AEGIS and AEGIS-like vessels:

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montyp165

Senior Member
At this point the PLAN has all the technical bits necessary to put together a KDX-III equivalent, however it does depend on whether that fits in the PLAN's strategic direction.
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
Hence the 128 missiles on the Type 052D. With tonnage approximately 10000 tons, 128 missiles won't be too much of a difficulty...

Huh? Your original post stated up to '96 VLS launchers and 128 YJ-12 anti ship missiles'?. The KDX-III has 128 VLS launchers (80 Mk.41 and 48 K-VLS). So what happened to the other 32 YJ-12? Are you saying some VLS carry more than 1 YJ-12? :eek::eek::eek:

...
The YJ-12 is not top secret. It's basically a supersonic anti ship missile. Heck, there's even a Wikipedia page on it, although we all know the accuracy of Wikipedia's information

Unlike many other programs in China, we have very little info or pictures of the YJ-12. Even the J-20 pictures have showed up. After that JH-7A model at Zhuhai airshow many years back the missile has literally disappeared from the public eye. The military seem to be keeping a very tight lip about the YJ-12. I mean not even a blurry image of test firing...:confused:
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
O.O
That would be... impressive, considering not even the USN has active plans to install lasers on their ships... Unless we're going to see 052D in 2030 or the laser that will be installed is just a soft kill system or something.

Jeez, can't believe you guys are buying into something that has not even been discussed by any major naval websites or military commentators yet.

Laser weapons, if they are developed in China, will either not be deployed on ships or will do so after 2050.



He's saying that the vessels you listed are also blogger speculation.

The vessel information (tonnage, dates, role, VLS, etc) are corroborated by various sources, commentators, blogs, and time frame analysis.

The laser weapons speculation isn't.

Even though the vessels will remain unconfirmed until we see the photos, it is at least more credible than some crazy "shipborne laser weapons" speculation.

The problem is that you said 052D will only have 96 VLS cells... you can't fit 128 missiles into 96 VLS cells unless they are quad packed or something.

Never said all of them are put into VLS launchers. We don't know much and maybe the 128 figure is too high, but here is my possible explanation.

Cruise missiles may use box launchers (if the PLA-N chooses to go old school on this) while the SAMs get VLS. After all, the Type 052D will not be a Chinese Ticonderoga. The ramjet engines and side intakes of the YJ-12 also makes it unsuitable for VLS launch.

OR

Some of the cruise missiles are kept as "backup" or supplement.
 
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