Space Warfare, Directed Energy Weapons, and other future military technology

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

cloyce said:

Please do not exaggerate with numbers. A piece of RoG will not destroy a city, but will likely destroy a big building or any strategic asset of the enemy.

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Please read my post and the history to that post carefully. I am replying to noname and was using his references. If I exaggerate, it is because I am using that particularly not accurate reference.

There seemed to be alot of hype about lasers and their usefulness in weaponries. However I do have some doubt.

1) the energy needed to power one and fired it to enough distance that could be useful. Well... if the laser generator or special vehicle is actually in outerspace whereby they could receive direct solar energy with minimal or no energy lostage due to the atmosphere, then this energy usage problem will be partially solved.

2) The time it would take for a laser weapon to recycle itself. If it was used as a CIWS, then it must recycle pretty fast, which can be a burden to the electricity and power generator over prolong period of time.

3) the main theory behind laser weapon was the fact that it was actually a concentrated beam of light and therefore could practically burn through any armour... Against ballistic missiles or warhead that had explosive within, once burned through, the laser energy might detonate the explosive within the warhead or the change of pressure might detonate the explosive too. which therefore make it viable.

however if the warhead doesn't contain any explosive, it was created entirely using a single block of dense material, then, all the laser could do is to punch a hole in this block but it will still go in and struck whatever target it mean to strike.

4) Understand that if the laser was fired at an incoming missile or satellite entering or hovering above the atmosphere, and burn a hole in it, upon entry, the difference in atmospheric pressure and the pressure within would cause the entire satellite or missile to disintegrate and most probably explode. But as in 3), then it would not have such an impact.

5) We know that kinetic rounds that contain no explosive was used to destroy a satellite. But look at the size of the kinetic rounds, laser are highly concentrate and was quite small actually (in term of diameters).

What I can see the usefulness of the laser, was in its capability to fry the optic of satellite or to dazzle it. It can also be use against enemy's firers by blinding them.

But for the laser to be successfully used as a weapon, I think all the above needed to be solve first... I do not know... maybe they have been solved already?

I don't think you need to look so far or dream so wildly to see the immediate future of Space Warfare.

DO you remember the Chinese Space Walk? Did you notice the little hubbub in certain circles that caused and why? The whole episode was filmed by an independently Micro Satellite, launched from the Capsule and put in orbit around it. The speculation about the military applications of microsats was hot if muted!

Everybody noticed the ASAT test of 2007, but what if China has already launched dozens of microsats concealed within their main payload launches that can be easily released as Kinetic Kill vehicles? If you go a step further and look at the recent Robotic docking Manoeuvre China achieved, you may want to ponder the idea of autonomous microsats either destroying or hacking/infecting or otherwise taking control of enemy space assets.

This appears to be options of working technology today and not dependant on huge expenditure for weapons of tomorrow.

SampanViking said:

I don't think you need to look so far or dream so wildly to see the immediate future of Space Warfare.

DO you remember the Chinese Space Walk? Did you notice the little hubbub in certain circles that caused and why? The whole episode was filmed by an independently Micro Satellite, launched from the Capsule and put in orbit around it. The speculation about the military applications of microsats was hot if muted!

Everybody noticed the ASAT test of 2007, but what if China has already launched dozens of microsats concealed within their main payload launches that can be easily released as Kinetic Kill vehicles? If you go a step further and look at the recent Robotic docking Manoeuvre China achieved, you may want to ponder the idea of autonomous microsats either destroying or hacking/infecting or otherwise taking control of enemy space assets.

This appears to be options of working technology today and not dependant on huge expenditure for weapons of tomorrow.

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I'm sorry... I don't think it is quite possible for those micro satellite to be used as a kinetic weapon or even to latch onto enemy's satellites and/or space assets, unless the vehicle carrying them could be steered and moved like aircraft or manned spacecrafts.

If these micro satellites are to be loaded in existing Chinese satellites, then it could not be able to hunt down enemy's space assets and attack them when needed to.

Plus if these micro satellites are loaded into the space launching vehicles that was to be launched into space, they are basically not able to steer or move...

China's Wuhan University reported on its web site on 7th Sep 2010 that its team has successfully conducted a space laser communication trial of 7.5 G transimission speed up to 40 kilometers in remote Qinhai Lake area of west China.



2010-9-7 16:28:00 光电信息工程系 阅读254次

由武汉大学、北京跟踪与通信技术研究所和北京国科环宇空间技术有限公司联合组成的高速无线激光通信系统研究项目组经过1年多的技术攻关，近日研制出7.5G空间激光通信系统。该系统于2010年8月下旬在青海省青海湖进行了外场试验，经过调试准备阶段后，成功进行了7.5G速率40km距离的自由空间激光通信试验。
该项目组2008年曾完成了2.5G速率16km距离的自由空间激光通信试验。与2008年试验采用粗波分复用（WDM）技术不同，本次试验采用了空间光密集波分复用（DWDM）技术，将2.5G速率的3个波长激光复用成7.5G的速率信号进行传输，实时传输的图像画面清晰、稳定，误码测试结果优于10-6。
据项目负责人艾勇教授介绍，目前在国内外尚未见到速率超过7G传输距离超过20km的空间激光通信试验报道。近些年由于航天、航空、航海都对空间激光通信技术提出了迫切需求，该技术前景非常看好。本次试验验证了精密激光发射与高灵敏接收光学、空间光DWDM、快速激光束捕获与跟踪等关键技术，它为促进我国高速空间激光通信技术的发展具有重要意义。

rhino123 said:

3) the main theory behind laser weapon was the fact that it was actually a concentrated beam of light and therefore could practically burn through any armour... Against ballistic missiles or warhead that had explosive within, once burned through, the laser energy might detonate the explosive within the warhead or the change of pressure might detonate the explosive too. which therefore make it viable.

however if the warhead doesn't contain any explosive, it was created entirely using a single block of dense material, then, all the laser could do is to punch a hole in this block but it will still go in and struck whatever target it mean to strike.

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I agree with all of your points but minor corrections on this one. The current ABL does not destroy the warhead by detonating the explosives. It attacks the missile in boost phase, or when the missile has just been launched, and destroys it by damaging the skin of the missile and causing the aerodynamics to fail.

One thing I've always been wondering is why the U.S. military is researching the "heat-ray" application of the laser instead of using laser ablation. Instead of a continuous beam why not go for a very intense pulse laser that could be fired within milliseconds.

siegecrossbow said:

I agree with all of your points but minor corrections on this one. The current ABL does not destroy the warhead by detonating the explosives. It attacks the missile in boost phase, or when the missile has just been launched, and destroys it by damaging the skin of the missile and causing the aerodynamics to fail.

One thing I've always been wondering is why the U.S. military is researching the "heat-ray" application of the laser instead of using laser ablation. Instead of a continuous beam why not go for a very intense pulse laser that could be fired within milliseconds.

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What about the radar that can damage electronics, they say even on a plane it can be effective up to 75 km, what could an Aegis Cruisers do to an incomeing missile with its electronics alone, What would be Aegis range if plane had radar that could damage a planes electroniics at 75k..I would think the Aegis could be powerful by factor fo ten or more.

siegecrossbow said:

I agree with all of your points but minor corrections on this one. The current ABL does not destroy the warhead by detonating the explosives. It attacks the missile in boost phase, or when the missile has just been launched, and destroys it by damaging the skin of the missile and causing the aerodynamics to fail.

One thing I've always been wondering is why the U.S. military is researching the "heat-ray" application of the laser instead of using laser ablation. Instead of a continuous beam why not go for a very intense pulse laser that could be fired within milliseconds.

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Actually there is a second way that I could think of to make use of the property of the laser.

And it is to strike a warhead just before it enter atmosphere. You doesn't really need to destroy the war head totally, instead just punctured a hole in it. Upon entry, the hole in the body will cause massive difference in pressure from the interior of the warhead to the exterior atmosphere, and coupled with the strenght of the entry, it will tear the warhead apart.

rhino123 said:

Actually there is a second way that I could think of to make use of the property of the laser.

And it is to strike a warhead just before it enter atmosphere. You doesn't really need to destroy the war head totally, instead just punctured a hole in it. Upon entry, the hole in the body will cause massive difference in pressure from the interior of the warhead to the exterior atmosphere, and coupled with the strenght of the entry, it will tear the warhead apart.

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Good idea. Ballistic missile warheads are essentially unmanned space-modules and need special heat-shields to protect them during reeintry. Cracking that shield will spell doom for the warhead.

Multiple warheads may offer a challenge. It just seems more efficient downing all 4-5 warheads with one go by trying to destroy the missile in boost stage instead of shooting down separate warheads. It is still a good last ditch defence though.

rhino123 said:

I'm sorry... I don't think it is quite possible for those micro satellite to be used as a kinetic weapon or even to latch onto enemy's satellites and/or space assets, unless the vehicle carrying them could be steered and moved like aircraft or manned spacecrafts.

If these micro satellites are to be loaded in existing Chinese satellites, then it could not be able to hunt down enemy's space assets and attack them when needed to.

Plus if these micro satellites are loaded into the space launching vehicles that was to be launched into space, they are basically not able to steer or move...

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I hunted down the article from Peter Brown written of the time (he of the C-PGS article fame) so have a read and let me know what you think.