Singapore Set to Acquire Refurbished Leopard Tanks from Germany

rhino123 said:

I realise that it would be cheap to just fire rounds at enemy's MBT, however it is also noted that the MBT will be used in dense tropical forest and so moving the turret around would be a big problem. Although it would be argued that the tank will be moving on roads or stuffs, but wouldn't that also make the tank sitting ducks for enemy's missilemen?

So I am thinking that if an additional feature such as an independent turret that look something like the older version of the M60 to be build but instead of firing machinegun or 25mm rounds, this turret could be fitted with a missile launcher to launch the locally manufactured SPIKE missiles.

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I wouldn't think SAF would operate the Leos in dense forest areas. The areas around Malaysia's main roads are mainly flat with low plantations etc.
On paper, SAF should be able to have air dominance & the Leos should have little problems with the opposition's MBTs. So I'd say the Leos main threat would be portable anti-tank weapons.

rhino123 said:

I realise that it would be cheap to just fire rounds at enemy's MBT, however it is also noted that the MBT will be used in dense tropical forest and so moving the turret around would be a big problem. Although it would be argued that the tank will be moving on roads or stuffs, but wouldn't that also make the tank sitting ducks for enemy's missilemen?

So I am thinking that if an additional feature such as an independent turret that look something like the older version of the M60 to be build but instead of firing machinegun or 25mm rounds, this turret could be fitted with a missile launcher to launch the locally manufactured SPIKE missiles.

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1. Not that much of a problem. Just requires good crew vigilance, and that is something that involves good training and tactics.

2. Nope. Tanks never venture out alone. They are often accompanied by IFV's and infantry.

3. The M60A2 was a failure. The design was abandoned and the ones produced converted to the M60A3 variant. No need to repeat it again.

rhino123 said:

I still believe that Singapore should invest more in perhaps Apache or smaller attack helicopters, light tanks and much much more SPIKE missiles, instead of the large Leopard 2A4. it is no doubt that these tanks are state of the art machinery but see what the Lebanonese do to the Israel's state of the art MBT.

Small wheeled tanks move faster and it suit the terrain of better, might only carry smaller cannon but coupled with powerful atgm like the SPIKE, they will still pack quite a punch.

Out in the open, Apache will kick any MBT to hell. Coupled with missile troopers armed with portable SPIKE missiles, Singapore can really do some damage. Thus I really don't see the need of the Leo.

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SINGAPORE army by 2007

SAF Equipment Type Amount
Main Battle Tanks ~200
Leopard 2A4 (120mm Rheinmetall L44 main gun) 132
Centurion Mk 3/Mk 7 (105mm L7 main gun) ~100 [1]
Light Tanks ~450
AMX-13SM1 ~350
M551 Sheridan (In Storage) ~100
Mechanized Infantry Combat Vehicles / IFVs ~700


Bionix II (30mm Bushmaster II chain gun/New armour) ~100
Bionix 25 (25mm Bushmaster chain gun) ~300
Bionix 40/50 (40mm AGL + 0.5in HMG) ~300
Armoured Personnel Carriers/Reconnaissance Vehicles ~1570
V-200 Commando RBS-70 (Air Defence) 350
M113 ULTRA 40/50 (40mm AGL + 0.5in HMG) ~700
M113 ULTRA OWS (25mm Bushmaster chain gun) ~300
AMX-10P 90mm and 25mm versions ~44
Howitzers ~300
M71 155 mm Towed Howitzer 38
FH-88 155 mm/39-Cal Towed Howitzer 54
FH-2000 155 mm/52-Cal Towed Howitzer 54
GIAT LG1 105 mm Towed Howitzer 60
SSPH Primus 155 mm/39-Cal Self-Propelled Howitzer (SSPH-1) 54
Pegasus 155 mm Self-Propelled Lightweight Howitzer 54
Armoured Engineers ?
Combat Engineer Tractor ?
M60A1 Armoured Vehicle Launched Bridge (AVLB) ?
M728 Armoured Combat Engineer Demolition Tank ?
Field Engineers ?
Vehicle Launched Bridge (VLB) ?
Foldable Longspan Bridge (FLB) ?
Projected Line Charge (PLC) ?
Bionix Launched Bridge ?
Bridging Engineers
M3G Bridge ?
All-Terrain Tracked Vehicles ~800
Bronco ATTC (GPMG armed/120mm Super-Rapid Mortar) ~500
BV206S (GPMG armed) ~300
Mortars
81 mm, 120 mm ?
Anti-Tank Rockets/Missiles ~4000
Spike-LR MANPACK 300
Matador ~3000
Guards Vehicles 400
Spike LSV with Twin SPIKE ATGM 200
Spider LSV 200
Air Defense SAM/ADA
I-Hawk United States SAM Classified ?
Mistral France SAM Classified ?
Rapier Mk II United Kingdom SAM Classified ?
SA-18 Igla MANPADS Russia SAM Classified ?
SA-18 (2 twin launchers on M113A2 chassis) Russia SAM Classified ?
RBS-70 Sweden SAM Classified ?
Oerlikon 35mm

Direct Fire Weapons ~400,000
SAR-21 >150,000
M16S1 M16 variant produced locally under license; for all intent similar to the M16A1 >200,000
CAR-15 Carbine version of the M-16 (Converting to SAR-21) >5,000
M203 40 mm GL >20,000
Ultimax 100 >20,000
FN MAG 7.62 mm General Purpose Machine Gun >10,000
CIS 12.7 mm HMG >3,000
Sig-Sauer P226 9 mm Pistol ?
H&K MP-5N 9 mm SMG >2,000
FN P90 5.7 mm SMG ~500
FN Five-Seven 5.7 mm Pistol ~500
PGM Mini-Hecate 8.6 mm Long-Range Sniper Rifle ~100
H&K PSG-1
Accuracy International L96A1
Accuracy International L115A1
Steyr SSG 86

MALAYSIA army by 2007 Standard Weapons

Steyr AUG A1Assault Rifle1
M4A1 Carbine 1
M16A1 Assault Rifle
FN Minimi Light Machine Gun
FN MAG 58General Purpose Machine Gun
1In 2006 Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak announced that the Steyr AUG rifle will in stages be replaced as the standard infantry rifle by the American-build M4A1 carbine


Scorpion 90 fitted with the 90 mm gun, similar to the type used by the Malaysian Army
PT-91M on parade.Armour

48 Bumar-Labedy (PT-91M Twardy) Main Battle Tanks.
211 FNSS ACV 300 Adnan Infantry Fighting Vehicles.
111 MIFV K200 (Modernized K-200 KIFVs) Armoured Personal Carriers.
26 FV101 Scorpion Light Tanks.
184 Sibmas 90 Armoured Fire Support Vehicles.
460 Thyssen Condor Armoured Personal Carriers.
25 Alvis Stormer Light Armoured Vehicles.
80 Haegglunds Bandvagn 206 Light Armoured Vehicles.
04 Avibras AV-VBL Artillery Command Vehicles.
Transport

1511 3 Ton 4x4 GS Cargo HICOM Handalan trucks.
168 2 Ton 4x4 Pinzgauer Gun Tractors.
164 2 Ton 6x6 Pinzgauer Mortar Transporters with 144 ammunition trailers.
13 6 Ton 4x4 Light Recovery Isuzu FTS33H.
29 5 Ton 4x4 Isuzu FSS32G Communication Shelters.
19 2 Ton 4x4 IVECO M4010 Field Ambulances.
04 2 Ton 4x4 IVECO M4012 Satellite Communication Vehicles.
33 Gomba Stonefield Field Ambulances.
4x4 Land Rover Defender .
4x4 G-wagon (Local Assembly).
Artillery:

18 Avibras (Astros II MLRS) Keris 300mm Multiple Rocket Launchers.
28 Denel G5 howitzer Mk 3 155mm Howitzers.
15 VSEL FH-70 155mm Howitzers.
200 OTO Melara Mod 56 105mm Pack Howitzers.
29 ***-005 Oerlikon 35 mm twin cannon.
36 Bofors 40 mm gun 40mm L/70.
150 M40 recoilless rifle.
Air Defence Missiles:

15 MBDA Rapier missile "Jernas"
700 Shorts Starburst surface-to-air missile (Most mounted on LML launchers)
500 Anza Mk II
200 9K38 (SA-18) "Igla" Man-portable air-defence systems.[2][3]
Anti-Tank weaponry:

Baktar-Shikan
9К115-2 Metis-M
MBDA ERYX
Saab Bofors Dynamics AT4
C-90 CR (M3) disposable rocket launcher.
RPG-7VM
Carl Gustav recoilless rifle
M40 recoilless rifle
Radars:

Ericsson GIRAFFE Radar Air Defence.
Oerlikon Skyguard radar
Ericsson ARTHUR Artillery Hunting Radar Artillery finding radar.
Aselsan Askarad GSR
Army Air Wing:

9 SA316B Aérospatiale Alouette III
11 Agusta-Westland A109H

on buying list from KEMENTERIAN PERTAHANAN(ministery of defense)

SOV with ATGM
short listed AT-14.AT-13, HJ-9
HN-5 manpads will be on local production(not yet confirm)

the last buying list is the medium-long range ATGM on SOV is a direct respose to Singapore Leopard tank because of the Lebanonese war(hizbollah did a good experiment melting the MERKAVA) ....but for the Leopard i think its more on a deterrent than a heavy breaktrough assault unit coz the most probable route for the tank will the causeway but i think the MALAYSIAN ARMY have plans for that...then SINGAPORE didnt have heavy LCAC so canot transport them across the johor straits , so they can use those tank to sniper MALAYSIAN position across the johor straits using their good optic targeting but can doublecross cause after they fire it will generate a lot of heat on the barrel so MALAYSIAn ATGM team can spot using pasif IR & counter fire.....because of the tropical nature with forest,rubber estate
and a lot of swamp on the malaysia side so those ATGM team can hide and wait....
for Apache or smaller attack helicopters i think also not a good idea because those helli are good in open desert terrain but not in forest or urban area,even
in first GULF WAR a lot of APACHE went down or damage beyond operation in an open place because of MANPADS, thats why MALAYSIA invest alot on them..(5 models 2 on LML)and for light tanks ,MALAYSIA can ambush them with cheaper RPG-7vm or ERYX for passive blast (that what the american got in vietnam...) MALAYSIA have been alot of hot trouble places under UN mandate from CONGO to LUBNAN so their more train in URBAN(proven in SOMALIA they lost 2 men and 1 condor in a mission to save the RANGERS) and JUNGLE WARFARE(proven the only army so far to beat an insurgency) and last thing those WEAPON like rpg7,anza manpads and bakhtar shikan ATGM are combat proven, so i think singapore must invest on fighter-bomber jets and UCAV
cause on MALAYSIA have a weak air defense network ( their main NAVY base in LUMUT was protected by some STARBURST LML!) but only MALAYSIAN AIR FORCE up to date in SOUTH EAST ASIA have NIGHT ATTACK capabilities using the their NITE HAWK targetting pod on their F/A-18 and HIGH SPEED ANTI RADIATION MISSILE( KH-31P) but like i said in my other post its really depends on how you use your equipment as good as possible on battlefield condition:coffee: cheeeers



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IF I NEED TO MODERATE YOUR POST AFTER THIS ONCE MORE, I WILL ISSUE YOU AN OFFICAL WARNING!!!!!!

Gollevainen
Super Moderator

I don't think Singapore should upgrade its Leo 2s. There's no need for the armour and definitely not the longer gun. Putting more armour on it adds weights and thus ground pressure and demobilizes the tank. Maybe VERA? They are lighter and easy to get.

Aren't the Primus and Pegasus the same? Why would Singapore porduce 2 SPHs?

sumdud said:

I don't think Singapore should upgrade its Leo 2s. There's no need for the armour and definitely not the longer gun. Putting more armour on it adds weights and thus ground pressure and demobilizes the tank. Maybe VERA? They are lighter and easy to get.

Aren't the Primus and Pegasus the same? Why would Singapore porduce 2 SPHs?

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Primus is a SSPH, 155mm calibre, they are suppose to be light weight and quite fast. It had a longer distance and functioned like any SPH suppose to function.

As for Pegasus, is meant to be a very lightweight SPH which is not as mobile as the Primus. It is design with the idea of making it air transportable easily and have very limited mobility so it can actually travelled a short distance to its attack position after being air dropped.

From the design concept, Pegasus is not SPH, but towed artillery piece with APU. AFAIK its mainly intended to haul via helicopters than via trucks like normal APU fitted howitsers. APU gives the system ability to travel via fire positions and landging/picking zones but it's not mean it can do any significant movements which all military units are normally assigned. Eg. its not a Self-propelled unit.

Gollevainen said:

From the design concept, Pegasus is not SPH, but towed artillery piece with APU. AFAIK its mainly intended to haul via helicopters than via trucks like normal APU fitted howitsers. APU gives the system ability to travel via fire positions and landging/picking zones but it's not mean it can do any significant movements which all military units are normally assigned. Eg. its not a Self-propelled unit.

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It is a direct counter to Denel G5 howitzer Mk 3 155mm Howitzers that malaysian army have..:coffee:

yeas, but Not a SPH by type, but APU fitted towed gun. And artilleries arent "counter" to anything, unless they are counterbattery units, and in that purpose they would be pure SPH or MRLS system. The singaporean gun is simple fire support device for the singaporean manouvre units. Its not mented to "counter" malysian or any other armys own fire support elements. That logic migth apply (if so, still poorly) to fighter aircraft or naval vessels, wich are mented to figth against each others. But artillery by philoshophy isent meneted for that.

No wonder....thanks for the info.

What modifications would a tropical Leopard need? (AC, etc.)
Is Singapore acquiring extra accessories like the 2A6's space-armour?

sumdud said:

No wonder....thanks for the info.

What modifications would a tropical Leopard need? (AC, etc.)
Is Singapore acquiring extra accessories like the 2A6's space-armour?

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Not much. The Leopard 2 has an onboard AC as standard, because it has NBC over pressurization (the previous Leopard tank was only NBC proof). Since Singapore is getting the A4, I would really at least upgrade to the A5 standard which has the spaced armour, an internal sprall liner, and electric turret drive.