Singapore Set to Acquire Refurbished Leopard Tanks from Germany

How about this scenario Malaysia election resulting in DAP win large majority. The Islamist agitate for Malay majority Some hot head blow up the Water extraction plant (belong to Singapore)in Johore The SAF sent the army to protect the Water plant and the pipeline in Johore Then the Malay general in Tentara Diraja Malaysia declare war on Singapore!

Singapore still get 50% of its water from Malaysia for very cheap price and reprocess it in Singapore and sell them back to Malaysia as processed water at higher price. Malaysia is not very happy with this arrangement but they couldn't do anything about it because the Water agreement is part of separation agreement between Singapore and Malaysia therefore it cannot be changed arbitrarily. Doing so will question the legal status of Singapore. Right now the relation between Spore and Malaysia is good but you never know what happened to Malaysia in the future .Add to that the ever present of shadow if race relation in Malaysia, is constant irritation between Spore and Malaysia. Singapore is like a thorn in the Malay world and Don't forget that in 68 Indonesia sent marine infiltrator to blow up Orchard road So the need for Singapore to spent 7 billion US $ for defense larger than combine Malaysia,Indonesia and thailand combine

Yeah, my little sister visited Singapore in her asian tournee this spring and She also spotted that there were tension over this water agreement thing. She talked about some new highway beeing build in the singapore that had all the requirment to be used as military airport in case of hostilities, as a result of this issue. Don't know wheter she overexagerated or what, but reading this thread, the conversation I had with her revisited in my thougths....

Gollevainen said:

Yeah, my little sister visited Singapore in her asian tournee this spring and She also spotted that there were tension over this water agreement thing. She talked about some new highway beeing build in the singapore that had all the requirment to be used as military airport in case of hostilities, as a result of this issue. Don't know wheter she overexagerated or what, but reading this thread, the conversation I had with her revisited in my thougths....

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Yes, water had always been an issue, but with the new Malaysian leader, the issue is not as tense now.

I think Singapore had been operating some roads and highways as military aircraft runways even in the 80s, this is nothing new, because of the pea size country, we need to have all these in case our airport are being bombed.

Back to the Leopard 2 topics, I am wondering how much are we paying for these tanks? And will these tanks be armed with anti-tank missiles like the SPIKE? Will there be chances that these MBT be upgraded to A5 standards?

rhino123 said:

Yes, water had always been an issue, but with the new Malaysian leader, the issue is not as tense now.

I think Singapore had been operating some roads and highways as military aircraft runways even in the 80s, this is nothing new, because of the pea size country, we need to have all these in case our airport are being bombed.

Back to the Leopard 2 topics, I am wondering how much are we paying for these tanks? And will these tanks be armed with anti-tank missiles like the SPIKE? Will there be chances that these MBT be upgraded to A5 standards?

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1. Not a whole lot. The resale market for the Leopard 2 is highly competitive. The Dutch and the Germans are unloading them off the market like bad. After this sale by the Germans to Singapore, the Dutch unloaded 52 Leopard 2A4's to Norway for 1.5 B kroner – about $285 M or $5.5M per vehicle. After this sale to Norway and then Denmark for 57 Leopard 2A5's, the Germans undercut the Dutch on a sale to Greece. The Dutch then sold Leopard 2A4's and 2A6's to Canada.

2. No. What Western MBT in the world uses a ATGM?

3. Good chance. However, the gold standard of the Leopard 2 family is the A6M, which has a longer 120mm gun and increased armour.

Singapore is paying less than a penny for 1000 gallons of water .Malaysian so call third world country citizens pay 35-40 x or maybe more than that :rofl: , very good deal indeed.
But still water price in singapore still high

Longer Gun may effect it's mobility , the current gun is more than enough to deal
any threat in the regions , extra armour is possible ,for drastic measure put some ERA on them.

Hendrik_2000 said:

How about this scenario Malaysia election resulting in DAP win large majority. The Islamist agitate for Malay majority Some hot head blow up the Water extraction plant (belong to Singapore)in Johore The SAF sent the army to protect the Water plant and the pipeline in Johore Then the Malay general in Tentara Diraja Malaysia declare war on Singapore!

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Malaysia and Singapore are more alike in some ways than they're willing to admit. The chance of an opposition party winning in Malaysia is about as high as someone overthrowing the PAP in Singapore.

In 2004 Malaysia Election the opposition won just 21 out of 219 seats.
In 2006 Singapore Election the opposition won 2 out of 84 seats.


Even if Malaysia's National Front breaks up, I suspect the UMNO and their friends will still retain a majority.

adeptitus said:

Malaysia and Singapore are more alike in some ways than they're willing to admit. The chance of an opposition party winning in Malaysia is about as high as someone overthrowing the PAP in Singapore.

In 2004 Malaysia Election the opposition won just 21 out of 219 seats.
In 2006 Singapore Election the opposition won 2 out of 84 seats.


Even if Malaysia's National Front breaks up, I suspect the UMNO and their friends will still retain a majority.

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Yeah what happened in 1967 When DAP win the large chinese majority and Big riot ensue 100 people died in the riot ! Sofar so good because the rising tide lifting all the boats. But if the economy tank you never know. Plus the ever present discriminatory practice is untenable in the long run. Sof

Not only that there all all kind of unfinished bussiness leftover from british time. Did you know that all the railway line and the train stations belong to Malaysia In the old days the border between Malaysia and Singapore is the trains station. So in the theory Malaysia can transport their troop all the way to the centre of Singapore without ever violating the Singapore teritory!

But Singapore doesn't want this nonsense and in 2001 Singapore actually move troops and buzz the jets and forcefully move the border to Woodland where it should belong!

How about Pulau Batu Puteh(Petra Branca) A small light house that was claimed by both Singapore and Malaysia. Last time I heard they went for arbitration in International court in Holland

But I do agree the old gen leader know each other well and sometime they went to the same school Therefore cool head prevails

Hi,

Can we forget about malaysia and Singapore politics for awhile and come back to discussing the Leo 2 tanks? Politics always make me stand on the edge especially we are discussing something very sensitive (as far as a Singaporean like me would feel).

Sorry about that.

I know that no western tanks are armed with an ATGM, but I am wondering if Leo 2 could be modify for that task?

rhino123 said:

Hi,

Can we forget about malaysia and Singapore politics for awhile and come back to discussing the Leo 2 tanks? Politics always make me stand on the edge especially we are discussing something very sensitive (as far as a Singaporean like me would feel).

Sorry about that.

I know that no western tanks are armed with an ATGM, but I am wondering if Leo 2 could be modify for that task?

Click to expand...

Israel has a gun-fired ATGM, called the LAHAT. But it requires modification of the fire control system to guide the missile. But the thing is, no one bothers to develop a ATGM on a tank, besides the Russians, as the current 120mm guns can kill tanks out to 4km accurately, cheaper to fire, and more combat effective (the tank can move and take cover once it fired it's gun, while a ATGM fired out of the tank has to stay still to guide the missile onto the target).

I realise that it would be cheap to just fire rounds at enemy's MBT, however it is also noted that the MBT will be used in dense tropical forest and so moving the turret around would be a big problem. Although it would be argued that the tank will be moving on roads or stuffs, but wouldn't that also make the tank sitting ducks for enemy's missilemen?

So I am thinking that if an additional feature such as an independent turret that look something like the older version of the M60 to be build but instead of firing machinegun or 25mm rounds, this turret could be fitted with a missile launcher to launch the locally manufactured SPIKE missiles.