Significance of the Chinese military contribution to World War 2 disputed.

Phead128 said:

Japan would definitely align with China to divide up Russia's Siberian assets in the name of living space, energy resources self-sufficiency, and security of northern passage sea lanes.

The vast expanse of Siberia is too rich in resources, too sparsely populated, and too geographically isolated vis-a-vis Moscow to be left ignored on the geopolitical plans of China, Korea, and Japan, especially with the melting the icecaps in the waters north of Siberia, creating potentially the most important sealane in the world.

China and Japan aren't dumb. They know with the depletion of Middle East resources, the next best thing is Siberia, which Russia herself can't even develop because she lacks the demographic manpower and financial capital to develop. It's also geographically close too, so China/Japan would align to seize the riches of Siberia.

Click to expand...

Just read the Nazi ambitions or the arguments for the Japanese attacks on China. In case of the Japanese attack on China, leading into WWII, the argument was slightly twisted, not into low population density, but low density of valuable population - valuable = worthy of becoming Japanese. And Chinese were considered totally incapable drug addicts who could never develop their country or resist the superior Japanese.
You simply suggest robbery of land and resources, because you consider someone unable to defend and want to have their property. That's just the kind of thinking that required the Chinese contributions in WWII in the first place.

Kurt said:

Just read the Nazi ambitions or the arguments for the Japanese attacks on China. In case of the Japanese attack on China, leading into WWII, the argument was slightly twisted, not into low population density, but low density of valuable population - valuable = worthy of becoming Japanese. And Chinese were considered totally incapable drug addicts who could never develop their country or resist the superior Japanese.
You simply suggest robbery of land and resources, because you consider someone unable to defend and want to have their property. That's just the kind of thinking that required the Chinese contributions in WWII in the first place.

Click to expand...

Your going to have to tell that to the Americans first, especially since 'manifest destiny' was built off similar thinking and one can see how much the US benefited from that, so if anything Stalin's point about making things unprofitable for would-be conquerors to attack is but an expected pragmatic reaction.

The American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers) is an often forgotten American contribution to the Chinese effort in WWII. So in case of such robberies, there are also allies available and Russian Siberia in the heartland (see heartland theory) is most unlikely to stay without allied support.
The neglect of Chinese contributions is related to the neglect of the history of mutual combat by Americans and Chinese in WWII. The film "Pearl Harbour", despite all shortcomings, reminds of that part. To help a remembrance culture, beyond the permanent UN security council seat, it will certainly help to honour contributions of Chinese allies in that conflict, like the supply routes from India through the Himalaya and so on.

About a week ago I was hanging out with my drawing group and I was making a joke about one of the guys ability to draw people and I said you don't want to be like Hitler do you. Most of us laughed but the guy didn't get the joke and we explained to him that Hitler was declined admittents to art schools because his portfolio no artwork with people in it. Hitler's ability to paint buildings and landscapes was good but there was never any people in his artwork. And one of the guys said if Hitler was accepted by an art school or an architecture school there wouldn't have been WW2. I then reminded him that the Japanese were still on the warpath and he was "oh right".

Too much of the west's recalection of WW2 is built around Hitler being the face of the evil enemy of WW2. Plus the west seems to never remind audiences the number of people killed by Japan while they always quote the number of Europeans killed by Germany on WW2 rememberance days and anniversaries.(This thread has said enough on the Cold War factors that deminish Japan's evil behavior.)

General Liu rifle

The General Liu rifle (named for its designer – it never received an official designation that we know of) was China’s closest approach to an indigenous self-loading infantry rifle before World War II. Mechanically it used the same principles as the Danish Bang rifle – a muzzle cup captured some of the gases from firing and was pulled forward, moving a cam and lever that cycled the bolt.

The Colt company of Hartford was contracted to supply the machinery to mass-produce the rifle, and about a dozen sample rifles were built by Colt. They were tested in China and met with general approval, and the machinery was loaded up and shipped to Shanghai. Unfortunately, General Liu died before the tooling arrived, and it ended up sitting on the docks for about 2 years, as the rifle project foundered and never cam to fruition without Liu’s supervision. The tools were eventually sent to an arsenal and repurposed for producing other guns.





[video=youtube;mWEa6_aJI9M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWEa6_aJI9M[/video]

[video=youtube;SvzEMvy3V84]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvzEMvy3V84[/video]

Boy if this rifle made it to Chinese troops I can see it get a proper name "Devil Slayer" or "Devil Killer" all the same.

Historically the Bang system was mechanically complicated and hard to keep clean from fouling, which is why gas-piston rifles became the dominant system.

I think the West gets China wrong by not having high level officials pay their respects at the Nanjing Massacre Memorial. They always make sure to go to the Jewish Holocaust Memorial. This slight sends a bad message that the lives of Chinese are worthless and that Chinese sacrifice and loss in WW2 is not worth acknowledging.

Can anyone tell me about PLA munitions production during the WW2?

Kurt said:

Just read the Nazi ambitions or the arguments for the Japanese attacks on China. In case of the Japanese attack on China, leading into WWII, the argument was slightly twisted, not into low population density, but low density of valuable population - valuable = worthy of becoming Japanese. And Chinese were considered totally incapable drug addicts who could never develop their country or resist the superior Japanese.
You simply suggest robbery of land and resources, because you consider someone unable to defend and want to have their property. That's just the kind of thinking that required the Chinese contributions in WWII in the first place.

Click to expand...

Chinese wanted to keep Outer Manchuria and Trans-Amur-Baikal as their property too, but was unable to defend it.

That's just the kind of rational that requires China to reclaim lost territories in the first place.

Did China invade and occupy parts of Japan to necessitate Japanese attack on China based on irredentism? No...

Thus, your exercise in mental acrobatics linking Imperial Japan to modern China is futile, as it does not respect history as we know it today.

Kurt said:

The American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers) is an often forgotten American contribution to the Chinese effort in WWII. So in case of such robberies, there are also allies available and Russian Siberia in the heartland (see heartland theory) is most unlikely to stay without allied support.
The neglect of Chinese contributions is related to the neglect of the history of mutual combat by Americans and Chinese in WWII. The film "Pearl Harbour", despite all shortcomings, reminds of that part. To help a remembrance culture, beyond the permanent UN security council seat, it will certainly help to honour contributions of Chinese allies in that conflict, like the supply routes from India through the Himalaya and so on.

Click to expand...

think General Chennault and his Flying Tigers are well-known and remembered in China and USA. it is General Albert Coady Wedemeyer's valuable contribution to the Chinese war effort that is forgotten by most peoples. the mainland Chinese choose to ignore General Wedemeyer's involvement in the China theater of war for obvious reasons.

General Wedemeyer was instrumental in helping the Chinese Armies successfully block off the final Japanese advances in Southwest China during the last stage of the war. Wedemeyer gradually released more US Lend-Lease supplies ( military and non-military ) to the Nationalists and Communists. before that, General Joseph Stilwell hoarded the supplies and gave little material to the Chinese Nationalist government. Wedemeyer successfully improved the logistics support for the Chinese Army and American Air Forces in China. as a result of that, the Chinese Army was able to see out the final months of the war with relative ease, including a big significant victory in west Hunan.

don't forget the faceless unknown German officers who defied Hitler's orders to return home to Germany in 1938. they chose to serve the Chinese Army instead. they worked behind the scenes, mostly in military strategy and planning positions.