Should China get su-35bm

T

trkl

New Member
China has the ability to develop new equipment without help from Russia or Israel or Europe. China now has more scientist and engineers graduating from collage each year than any other country. With all that local talent, there is no reason for them to go looking for foreign help on every project.

I agree that China will probably get AESA before Russia. AESA technology is closely related to cell-phone and wireless technology, and China is the worlds largest producer/consumer of cellphones and wireless devices.
 
Chairman Hu

Chairman Hu

Banned Idiot
yea too bad China doesnt have any companies that develops and markets these tech as good or as much as other companies in other countries...

AESA? China is gonna get that, and it IS gonna be before Russia, with their economy, they are stuck in a craphole, they REALLY needa improve their economy...
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
trkl said:
China has the ability to develop new equipment without help from Russia or Israel or Europe. China now has more scientist and engineers graduating from collage each year than any other country. With all that local talent, there is no reason for them to go looking for foreign help on every project.

I agree that China will probably get AESA before Russia. AESA technology is closely related to cell-phone and wireless technology, and China is the worlds largest producer/consumer of cellphones and wireless devices.
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i hate to admit it, but china is actually pretty incapable of making any complete weapons system without at least a small amount of foreign imput.:mad:
 
A

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
MIGleader said:
i hate to admit it, but china is actually pretty incapable of making any complete weapons system without at least a small amount of foreign imput.:mad:
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It's cheaper to purchase or license the technology, rather than reinventing the wheel. Notice a lot of military contracts include technology transfers and local assembly/production. In the recent arms sale from China to Malaysia, for an example, China agreed to transfer manufacturing technology of surface to air missiles to Malaysia,
 
T

trkl

New Member
MIGleader said:
i hate to admit it, but china is actually pretty incapable of making any complete weapons system without at least a small amount of foreign imput.:mad:
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Well, China was pretty incapable of of designing complete weapon systems without foreign help. However, China is going through a scientific and technological revolution and has advanced much further than most people realise. If you look at R&D expendiature, number of students enroled in higher education, or the number of scientific papers published, all three measurements are doubling every 4 years. China's current R&D spending and scientific output are now close to the level of Japan's.

So I think that because people underestimate China's progress, they also tend to overestimate foriegn contributions to China's weapons projects. You will see people claim that pl-12 uses the seekser of R-77(though both Russia and China deny it), that the air defense system on 052C is somehow based off stolen AEGIS technology, that type 730 CWIS is based off Goalkeeper or SATAN or SAMOS (though there is debate over which one and no one can explain how China could have obtained any of them), and that J-10 is just a Chinese copy of Isreals cancelled LAVI project(despite the many obvious differences between Lavi and J-10). While it is true that Chinese weapons are based off foreign designs, I don't agree with the idea that all Chinese weapons are simply clones of foreign systems or that China is incable of independent development.
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
trkl said:
Well, China was pretty incapable of of designing complete weapon systems without foreign help. However, China is going through a scientific and technological revolution and has advanced much further than most people realise. If you look at R&D expendiature, number of students enroled in higher education, or the number of scientific papers published, all three measurements are doubling every 4 years. China's current R&D spending and scientific output are now close to the level of Japan's.

So I think that because people underestimate China's progress, they also tend to overestimate foriegn contributions to China's weapons projects. You will see people claim that pl-12 uses the seekser of R-77(though both Russia and China deny it), that the air defense system on 052C is somehow based off stolen AEGIS technology, that type 730 CWIS is based off Goalkeeper or SATAN or SAMOS (though there is debate over which one and no one can explain how China could have obtained any of them), and that J-10 is just a Chinese copy of Isreals cancelled LAVI project(despite the many obvious differences between Lavi and J-10). While it is true that Chinese weapons are based off foreign designs, I don't agree with the idea that all Chinese weapons are simply clones of foreign systems or that China is incable of independent development.
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i said soem imput. the j-10s airframe was based of the lavi, though far from a copy. its original engine was russian.

the pl-12 indeed does use r-77 seeker tech, thoug definitly not copied.

the hq-9 on the 52cs were designed off of the s-300, though much improved.
and all chinese ships feature foreign engines.

but in the future, china will be able to make its own quality equipment, and become self dependent.
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
trkl said:
Well, China was pretty incapable of of designing complete weapon systems without foreign help. However, China is going through a scientific and technological revolution and has advanced much further than most people realise. If you look at R&D expendiature, number of students enroled in higher education, or the number of scientific papers published, all three measurements are doubling every 4 years. China's current R&D spending and scientific output are now close to the level of Japan's.

So I think that because people underestimate China's progress, they also tend to overestimate foriegn contributions to China's weapons projects. You will see people claim that pl-12 uses the seekser of R-77(though both Russia and China deny it), that the air defense system on 052C is somehow based off stolen AEGIS technology, that type 730 CWIS is based off Goalkeeper or SATAN or SAMOS (though there is debate over which one and no one can explain how China could have obtained any of them), and that J-10 is just a Chinese copy of Isreals cancelled LAVI project(despite the many obvious differences between Lavi and J-10). While it is true that Chinese weapons are based off foreign designs, I don't agree with the idea that all Chinese weapons are simply clones of foreign systems or that China is incable of independent development.
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If you haven't noticed, 052C uses pretty much all Russian sensors. WS-10A was in a limbo until we thoroughly studied AL-31F and got help from the Russians. It doesn't hurt to have foreign help at all.

As for Malaysia, what's this about China selling SAM to Malaysia? When did this happen?
 
Chairman Hu

Chairman Hu

Banned Idiot
Russian Tech has helped China get China on the right road, I mean, by the time it was 1950 and China was still in the feudal ages with 1% as the rich population, China had her head in the ground pretty deep, only through Russian help China is prosperous as she is today (military speaking)

The AL-41F can help China on TVC design, and there might be something China can pick up from the radar and other systems on the 35BM
 
T

trkl

New Member
tphuang said:
If you haven't noticed, 052C uses pretty much all Russian sensors. WS-10A was in a limbo until we thoroughly studied AL-31F and got help from the Russians.
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The sensors on 052C, according to sinodefence:
SENSORS

The ship is fitted with four multifunction phased array radar antenna. The radar is reportedly developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (also known as 14 Institute). There is also a Type 517H-1 (NATO codename: Knife Rest) long-range 2D air search radar; a Russian Band Stand fire-control radar (for anti-ship missile and main gun); and two Type 327G (EFR-1, NATO codename: Rice Lamp) fire control radar for the CIWS.
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The sensors seem more Chinese than Russian.

WS-10A was not based on AL-31F. It's specs are a lot more similar to western engines than to Al-31F.
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
tphuang said:
If you haven't noticed, 052C uses pretty much all Russian sensors. WS-10A was in a limbo until we thoroughly studied AL-31F and got help from the Russians. It doesn't hurt to have foreign help at all.

As for Malaysia, what's this about China selling SAM to Malaysia? When did this happen?
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incorrect. the ws-10a was a project to develop a western style engine. the ws-10 was the parrelel project to reverse engineer the al-31. the engines were competing. the radar on the 52c may have been developed from the kvant, but no one knows for sure.
 
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