Shenyang next gen combat aircraft thread

jnd85

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However, the Shenyang sixth-generation fighter is not the same. Before discussing the so-called mission layer and supersonic cruise, it first addresses the need for maneuverability. Therefore, the Shenyang sixth-generation fighter has more requirements in the physical domain than the Chengdu sixth-generation fighter. Of course, the statement that there will be significant changes in the form and energy distribution of offense and defense in the future indicates that there is still some difference from previous eras. Combining with the previous text, it is clear that advantageous maneuvers in the form of attack are no longer pursued, meaning that high altitude and high speed are no longer sought after. High altitude means you are in a position without clutter, while the opponent is under the cover of ground clutter. High speed means providing more acoustic/optical information, leading to a disadvantage in the information domain. The gradual improvement in missile performance also means that the empowerment effect of aircraft maneuverability on missiles is gradually diminishing. On the other hand, there is a significant demand for maneuverability in defensive situations, that is, the pursuit of a comprehensive maneuverability B value, which breaks down into the maximum sustained load factor G sustained, the maximum instantaneous load factor G instantaneous, and the previously mentioned specific excess power SEP. The pursuit of SEP is the same, but the pursuit of load factor maneuverability is somewhat different, with more emphasis on the ability to perform high-load maneuvers while maintaining high-speed supersonic cruise. This can also be understood as a need for supersonic medium-range missile dueling (Chief Designer Sun mentioned that the performance of dogfight missiles has improved too much, making close-range dogfights too risky and unrealistic, almost certainly resulting in a one-for-one exchange, hence the need to win at medium range), or more specifically, maneuvers like the 39-degree dive, Immelmann turn, and Split S.

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Currently, a relatively high-definition video has been released, confirming my perspective. The design of the Shenyang sixth-generation fighter is highly similar to the small-aspect-ratio flying wing standard model proposed by China during the 12th Five-Year Plan period. The difference lies in the leading edge being modified to a double-swept angle to enhance performance (the Chengdu sixth-generation fighter also features a double-swept leading edge). The multiple control surfaces distributed at different positions ensure that the Shenyang sixth-generation fighter has a high load capacity even at high speeds. Of course, this also implies that the Shenyang sixth-generation fighter is estimated to be relatively light, at least much lighter than the Chengdu sixth-generation fighter, allowing a twin-engine configuration to ensure a high specific excess power (SEP). Additionally, although Chief Designer Sun's thesis also acknowledges the requirements for long range and endurance, there is a significant difference from Chengdu's approach: Shenyang believes that this issue should not be solved by the aircraft itself but by a more advanced next-generation refueling support system, especially an aerial refueling system (including fighter-to-fighter refueling, a combination of unmanned stealth tankers and manned large tankers), to ensure that maneuverability is not compromised.
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From this perspective, I also have a somewhat speculative personal guess regarding the V-shaped notch that runs from the middle of the intake through the entire weapon bay and the middle of the engine to the tail cone of the Shenyang sixth-generation fighter. I believe this is likely an optimized central lifting body designed for high-speed performance. Traditional central lifting bodies use boundary layers to increase lift, which is effective at low speeds but less so at high speeds. Additionally, designs like the Su-57 have certain negative impacts on weapon bay deployment and can create low-pressure zones at the tail, increasing drag and imposing requirements on tail cone design, while also forming many 90-degree dihedral angle reflections that affect stealth. This new V-notch central lifting body, similar to a wedge-derived waverider, could use shock wave principles to enhance lift, performing better at high speeds and more efficiently introducing airflow to the rear to solve low-pressure zone issues. The smaller notch could also avoid affecting weapon bay deployment, and since the angle is not 90 degrees, the impact on stealth would be smaller and within acceptable limits. Of course, this is just my personal speculation and lacks definitive evidence to prove it.

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to be...
Has anyone else noticed the uniquely smooth appearance of the surface connecting the ailerons to the rest of the wing? It is almost as if there is a polymer sheath connecting them, perhaps for stealth or to reduce drag. Maybe it is just an artifact of the low resolution imagery, or the connecting joints are just so precise that no gap is visible, but it looks positively organic from afar.
 

00CuriousObserver

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So assuming this plane will go on a carrier, and this applies to any carrier based 6th gen planes. They're clearly not as big as land based 6th gens, which means potentially they don't generate as much power and don't have as much space for EW. Doesn't this mean a bigger difference in capabilities between land based aircrafts vs carrier based compared to previous generations?
 

bsdnf

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In my opinion, the SAC 6gen is not as complete as the CAC. There are too many designs that don't make sense, such as the indentation on the belly and the weapon bay that don't know where to put. In fact, Yankee's long review after first flight last year also hinted that the SAC is closer to the demonstrator like X-35.
 

Deino

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So assuming this plane will go on a carrier, and this applies to any carrier based 6th gen planes. They're clearly not as big as land based 6th gens, which means potentially they don't generate as much power and don't have as much space for EW. Doesn't this mean a bigger difference in capabilities between land based aircrafts vs carrier based compared to previous generations?

Again, why do you think so ? At least that black mockup at Wuhan is none and it has been reported more than once.
 

00CuriousObserver

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Again, why do you think so ? At least that black mockup at Wuhan is none and it has been reported more than once.

For a carrier-based next gen, the possibilities are: this plane will be carrier-based, the J-36 will be, a different plane will be, or no plane will be designated for it. My reasoning is that a next gen carrier-based plane is planned, and we’ve already seen two next gen designs. Considering the J-36’s size and the likelihood of China developing a third next gen plane for this purpose, it seems more likely this plane will be adapted for carrier use. However, my question applies broadly to other next generation planes as well.
 

Deino

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For a carrier-based next gen, the possibilities are: this plane will be carrier-based, the J-36 will be, a different plane will be, or no plane will be designated for it. My reasoning is that a next gen carrier-based plane is planned, and we’ve already seen two next gen designs. Considering the J-36’s size and the likelihood of China developing a third next gen plane for this purpose, it seems more likely this plane will be adapted for carrier use. However, my question applies broadly to other next generation planes as well.


My point is, this is a theory at best and you claim it already close to being a fact, we are endlessly discussion since pages similar non-proven stuff as if and even more what consequences this will have .. the same nonsense in the H-20 and J-36 where not a 4-6 engines supersonic stealth bomber or a hypersonic ram-jet-powered super-whatever is rated as a fact!

I'm slowly not only annoyed but simply angry that again and again the same nonsense is claimed, endlessly discussed with all consequences and in fact we know almost nothing! Just for the J-36, the best we know was summarised by @siegecrossbow and instead of talking about this it goes on wilder and wilder!

If there is nothing new to discuss since no new facts are known, it‘s probably better NOT to post!?
 
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00CuriousObserver

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Definitely did not mean to claim it like a fact. The initial point was about the question of land based vs carrier based next gens. The part involving this plane was intended to be speculation. Apologies for coming off the wrong way, it was due to poor wording (the "so assuming this plane will go on a carrier" part).
 

by78

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This
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might have some relevance here, as China is very, very active in developing and manufacturing
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for various applications, including radar-evasion. The patented invention is a multi-band stealth metamaterial assembly that is bullet-proof and light-weight.

The invention relates to the technical field of functional composite materials, in particular to a lightweight, low-thickness, long-term and reliable multiband radar stealth and bulletproof integrated metamaterial which comprises a ceramic layer, an ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene fiber composite material bulletproof layer, a graphene metamaterial filtering layer, an ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene fiber composite material loss layer and a carbon fiber reflecting layer which are sequentially stacked. According to the invention, two layers of ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene fiber resin composite materials are used as loss layers, the circuit resonance of the graphene metamaterial filter layer is utilized to generate pass bands and stop bands, the working conditions of the ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene fiber resin composite material layers in different radar wave bands are controlled, and a structure capable of generating lambda/4 resonance at low frequency and high frequency simultaneously is further established, so that a wider absorption frequency band is realized in a plurality of wave bands, and the adaptability of the prepared radar stealth bulletproof integrated fiber reinforced resin composite metamaterial under radar detection in different wave bands is greatly expanded.
Click to expand...
54264466680_c5791a66d9_h.jpg
 
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tphuang

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This
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
might have some relevance here, as China is very, very active in developing and manufacturing
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
for various applications, including radar-evasion. The patented invention is a multi-band stealth metamaterial assembly that is bullet-proof and light-weight.


54264466680_c5791a66d9_h.jpg
I think Kuang-Chi said it's already on its 4th generation of meta material. I haven't done enough research into F-35 RAM layer, so can't comment on if they are also doing the same. But it looks like at least with meta material, they have a lot to improvements ahead still.

So yeah, by the time SAC 6th gen come around, we may very well be at 10th generation of meta material.
 

Mearex

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