Shenyang next gen combat aircraft (?J-XDS)

Syrida2887 · 2025-09-28T00:51:08-0400

phrozenflame said:
Probably MSS complained to SAC that either they pay for all the tea or move the test flights far from the city.

Another point regarding TVC, they both could probably move independently of each other and with independent thrust control can lead to alot more control.

In fact, SAC has already started the moving process, but the construction of the new factory still needs several years, and it will become the main production line of J-35 in the future (it is not difficult to imagine that J35A, as a "cheap product", can be produced by assembly line in countries where J-20 can maintain high production efficiency, just like they assemble cars and mobile phones).

AssassinsMace · 2025-09-28T04:40:03-0400

Blitzo · 2025-09-28T05:12:17-0400

AssassinsMace said:

As has been mentioned to other members on multiple occasions, if videos from Youtube have to be posted on this forum, can a clear justification and rationale for why they are posted be made, rather than just linking to them without any comment (or with only a short single sentence comment)?

Specifically, justifications/rationales should be things like if a Youtube video offers any sort of unique insights that we in the thread or the forum is not already aware of or have not already discussed, etc.

enroger · 2025-09-28T08:18:07-0400

AssassinsMace said:

This is actually surprisingly good quality content, apart from the occasional cringey theatrics in his video he actually explained a lot of stuffs I previously haven't thought of.

1, It is possible that AWT airfoil is designed to induce stall at as little AoA as possible. This way the plane can "bias" the AWT at a critical AoA so that the slightest change in AoA will result in large change of drag. This will provide extremely snappy yaw torque, unlike how I previously thought that AWT need to traverse large angle to effect change in drag.

We can see in leveled flight video of J-50 with it's AWTs in positive pitch on both sides, which support this theory (AWTs "biased" at critical angle).

This is giving me a lot more confidence in AWT design not gonna lie, no wonder it's also showing up in one of the UADFs.

2, AWT is especially well suited to pair with lambda wing. Due to an inherent problem of lambda wing's propensity to stall on other wing segments even in modest AoA (a phenomena called "pitch break"). AWT happens to position outside of stalled wing surface to maintain authority even when pitch break occur.

Raison D'tere · 2025-09-28T08:44:56-0400

enroger said:
This is actually surprisingly good quality content, apart from the occasional cringey theatrics in his video he actually explained a lot of stuffs I previously haven't thought of.

1, It is possible that AWT airfoil is designed to induce stall at as little AoA as possible. This way the plane can "bias" the AWT at a critical AoA so that the slightest change in AoA will result in large change of drag. This will provide extremely snappy yaw torque, unlike how I previously thought that AWT need to traverse large angle to effect change in drag.

We can see in leveled flight video of J-50 with it's AWTs in positive pitch on both sides, which support this theory (AWTs "biased" at critical angle).

This is giving me a lot more confidence in AWT design not gonna lie, no wonder it's also showing up in one of the UADFs.

2, AWT is especially well suited to pair with lambda wing. Due to an inherent problem of lambda wing's propensity to stall on other wing segments even in modest AoA (a phenomena called "pitch break"). AWT happens to position outside of stalled wing surface to maintain authority even when pitch break occur.

So....in other words, the wingtips are solely for countering the disadvantages of lambda wings?

Or, is there still some use of those that will enhance maneuverability in some way?

gelgoog · 2025-09-28T08:47:12-0400

It does enhance manueverability. According to the video a plain lambda wing would basically stall if you tried to made tight turns with it. The wingtips solve that.

Raison D'tere · 2025-09-28T08:54:28-0400

Isn't that just ensuring a lambda wing works just as a typical wing fitted for high AoA?

But not to dismiss their choice, though, as the vid also said it's much stealthier.

enroger · 2025-09-28T08:55:26-0400

Raison D'tere said:
So....in other words, the wingtips are solely for countering the disadvantages of lambda wings?

Or, is there still some use of those that will enhance maneuverability in some way?

It also enhance maneuverability by providing yaw authority at wider range of AoA. At large AoA conventional vertical tail lose yaw authority but AWT won't.

Edit: Compared to split ailerons, I suspect AWT also has wider range of usable AoA but I'm not entirely sure

MeiouHades · 2025-09-28T09:11:44-0400

enroger said:
This is actually surprisingly good quality content, apart from the occasional cringey theatrics in his video he actually explained a lot of stuffs I previously haven't thought of.

1, It is possible that AWT airfoil is designed to induce stall at as little AoA as possible. This way the plane can "bias" the AWT at a critical AoA so that the slightest change in AoA will result in large change of drag. This will provide extremely snappy yaw torque, unlike how I previously thought that AWT need to traverse large angle to effect change in drag.

We can see in leveled flight video of J-50 with it's AWTs in positive pitch on both sides, which support this theory (AWTs "biased" at critical angle).

This is giving me a lot more confidence in AWT design not gonna lie, no wonder it's also showing up in one of the UADFs.

2, AWT is especially well suited to pair with lambda wing. Due to an inherent problem of lambda wing's propensity to stall on other wing segments even in modest AoA (a phenomena called "pitch break"). AWT happens to position outside of stalled wing surface to maintain authority even when pitch break occur.

AWTs with fully digital flight control systems is a relatively new and difficult tech to master. It's not unknown by any means, at least theoretically, I know many teams at UCLA who've experimented with it. What's difficult is actually integrating it completely and flawlessly with a very new kind of airframe design with all the necessary software needed to control them (PIDs themselves aren't difficult but at high speed and various other aerodynamic conditions, things become REALLY complicated to work with). Many people are dismissing it as just another design choice but this is EASILY the most impressive thing by miles about this aircraft, at least until we see what else it can do which won't be anytime soon I suspect. Really impressive stuff here and why I firmly now believe that Chinese military aviation is superior in many ways to ours.

zbb · 2025-09-28T10:35:07-0400

enroger said:
It also enhance maneuverability by providing yaw authority at wider range of AoA. At large AoA conventional vertical tail lose yaw authority but AWT won't.

Edit: Compared to split ailerons, I suspect AWT also has wider range of usable AoA but I'm not entirely sure

According to the video, split ailerons are right in the area where lambda wing stalls while the AMWT is outside the stall area.

Shenyang next gen combat aircraft (?J-XDS)

Syrida2887

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