Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
kurutoga said:
No direct indication it receives military funding. But since SAC is a government owned company, the project has to be government funded, anyway. Since it has no military R&D funding, the explanation that it is purely for export makes sense. However, it has to be discussed with the military, to gain permission for export, so there has to be considerable military involvement. It is possible the underlying suppliers were military funded, and there could be military technology transfer or other sorts of support (such as the first prototype went to Yan Liang before to use the government facility for testing). So, we can only conclude "China" should be considered as one entity in terms of industrial military complex.

SAC along can't invest in all the parts, such as the new radar and the new engine, without extensive military (indirect) funding. The fact that the second prototype exists, means it is agreed upon in the higher-ups for some customers, domestic or not.
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Im glad you said it kuru and I'm frankly quite surprised so many is unaware that CAC, SAC etc are not total privately held companies like Boeing, Lockheed etc. Heck, I guarantee you even privately owned companies like them have received certain funding that are not disclosed to the general public.
Anyway AVIC itself is a state owned enterprise and under the directive of SASAC..
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Like you said the fact that FC31 even came to being and has two actual flying copies means that the state has invested considerable amount into it. Anyone claiming it has received zero gov. funding is either lying or wholly ignorant of how these companies work.
 
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kurutoga

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kwaigonegin said:
Im glad you said it kuru and I'm frankly quite surprised so many is unaware that CAC, SAC etc are not total privately held companies like Boeing, Lockheed etc. Heck, I guarantee you even privately owned companies like them have received certain funding that are not disclosed to the general public.
Anyway AVIC itself is a state owned enterprise and under the directive of SASAC..
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Like you said the fact that FC31 even came to being and has two actual flying copies means that the state has invested considerable amount into it. Anyone claiming it has received zero gov. funding is either lying or wholly ignorant of how these companies work.
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Exactly. It is matter of which budget will fund the project.

Also, to the State, even if it serves as a backup, or as experimental, exploration purposes, it may well worth it. Remember JF-17 was Yang Wei's first project that he was the chief designer, before he works on J-20. Those young future chief designers may have learned much from FC-31 already, for it being outside of Yang Wei's design philosophy so they can observe different design guidelines and compare the results.

Even with the impressive buildup of PLAN, I can't believe if the military do not consider air force being the even higher priority. It's not like in a private firm where short term profit and stock price is important. For the national security issues the investment is strategic and long term.

Projects like high speed rails, do not make sense in a smaller country. China has the scale, the market, and population density to build it as an industry, then seek export market. The same thing is going on here.
 
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Deleted member 13312

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kurutoga said:
No direct indication it receives military funding. But since SAC is a government owned company, the project has to be government funded, anyway. Since it has no military R&D funding, the explanation that it is purely for export makes sense. However, it has to be discussed with the military, to gain permission for export, so there has to be considerable military involvement. It is possible the underlying suppliers were military funded, and there could be military technology transfer or other sorts of support (such as the first prototype went to Yan Liang before to use the government facility for testing). So, we can only conclude "China" should be considered as one entity in terms of industrial military complex.

SAC along can't invest in all the parts, such as the new radar and the new engine, without extensive military (indirect) funding. The fact that the second prototype exists, means it is agreed upon in the higher-ups for some customers, domestic or not.
Click to expand...
That depends, just because SAC is a state owned enterprise does not mean that it can't make private ventures of its own (all with government approval of course). SAC is one of the 2 giants of China's aerospace industry with considerable profit margins. Since China is pushing for greater military civilian integration on its part, it would make sense for SAC to take certain initiatives on its own.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
kurutoga said:
Exactly. It is matter of which budget will fund the project.

Also, to the State, even if it serves as a backup, or as experimental, exploration purposes, it may well worth it. Remember JF-17 was Yang Wei's first project that he was the chief designer, before he works on J-20. Those young future chief designers may have learned much from FC-31 already, for it being outside of Yang Wei's design philosophy so they can observe different design guidelines and compare the results.

Even with the impressive buildup of PLAN, I can't believe if the military do not consider air force being the even higher priority. It's not like in a private firm where short term profit and stock price is important. For the national security issues the investment is strategic and long term.

Projects like high speed rails, do not make sense in a smaller country. China has the scale, the market, and population density to build it as an industry, then seek export market. The same thing is going on here.
Click to expand...
Of course the J-31 project would serve in someways to future China's aerospace industry, but it remains to be seen whether the PLAAF or the PLAN would push the design all the way to the production line. I would say that scrutiny concerning project feasibility is much higher in China then it is in the US because the ability to pork barrel and lobby is much more reduced. And it is not in China's way to give full funding to every single military project that shows some promises.
 
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kurutoga

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Registered Member
SinoSoldier said:
Can somebody provide a translation? Apparently this is circulating in WeChat groups.
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It's not as interesting as you might think. Someone decided to ridicule FC-31 by listing its presumed problems based on rumors, and wishing FC-31 project gets canceled:
  • Poor engine
  • No side weapon bay
  • SAC can't finish the project, they can't even figure out Su27 thoroughly
  • SAC should not have funded it privately
  • FC-31 can't get PLAAF designation
  • Lobbying (by the fellow of Chinese Academy of Science) will not help
In reality everything is unknown so we can't conclude yet. These sort of message leads to unnecessary quarrels by internet users and incite hatred between CAC and SAC.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
kurutoga said:
It's not as interesting as you might think. Someone decided to ridicule FC-31 by listing its presumed problems based on rumors, and wishing FC-31 project gets canceled:
  • Poor engine
  • No side weapon bay
  • SAC can't finish the project, they can't even figure out Su27 thoroughly
  • SAC should not have funded it privately
  • FC-31 can't get PLAAF designation
  • Lobbying (by the fellow of Chinese Academy of Science) will not help
In reality everything is unknown so we can't conclude yet. These sort of message leads to unnecessary quarrels by internet users and incite hatred between CAC and SAC.
Click to expand...

Never knew lobbying was a thing in China. You learn new things every day!
 
K

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
SinoSoldier said:
Never knew lobbying was a thing in China. You learn new things every day!
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Getting PLAAF/PLAN buying stuff they don't need is getting really hard under Xi. Not only due to anti-corruption campaign. Now looking back at Yang Wei's video, his message about J-20 becoming the backbone of PLAAF in the big event around 2035, I can try to understand some sort of internal timeline set by the politicians. It may very well be the real expectation of fighting a modern war over Taiwan in 2035.

Back to FC-31, people produce rumors due to boredom, for lack of information. Too early to know what will happen to that project.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
SinoSoldier said:
Can somebody provide a translation? Apparently this is circulating in WeChat groups.
View attachment 44939
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Sure,

"Air Force Brat" enters the pattern to demonstrate just how easy it is to bring the FC-31 aboard ship, by doing a short series of touch and goes aboard the Chinese Aircraft carrier, Lioaning! of course the tech demonstrator is not currently equipped with a tail-hook, but the Brat assures us that Shenyang Aircraft Corp are busy designing the "hook"!
 
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