vesicles
Colonel
I hope they cut their losses and move on already... it's so clear the PLAAF doesn't like it.
It's like a guy who never knows to back off even when the girl has done everything she can to signal that she is not interested...
Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator
- Thread starter RedSky
- Start date
- Status
I hope they cut their losses and move on already... it's so clear the PLAAF doesn't like it.
It's like a guy who never knows to back off even when the girl has done everything she can to signal that she is not interested...
when we don't see a second prototype come out all this time we know it's a dead project now. it's gone as far as SAC can take it. we will probably see a new display model of it in upcoming Zhuhai airshow because putting up a plastic model costs nothing but in reality it's dead/frozen.
eldarlmari
New Member
Thatt's why they are still hanging on to see if they can find another country to co-develop the plane with. The plane has been offered to Pakistan but they rejected it, perhaps due to financial reasons.
There really aren't many potential partners for such a project. Maybe Indonesia, Iran, or one of the Gulf states?
I'm personally surprised anyone expected it another way.
Hi/low mix never really worked with twin engined type duos.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Su27 and Mig29, F14 and F18, just to list a few examples OTTOH.
The J31 had no PLAAF future the moment they chose CAC's design over SAC's offering for the XXJ/J20.
SAC was being stubborn and arrogant in thinking they could change the PLAAF's mind with their re-hashed design and political maneuvering.
If anything, I would expect it to have been their behind-the-scenes maneuvering that would have got the PLAAF's backs up the most and made them dig their heels in to resist the J31.
Had SAC put the kind of effort they did into aircraft making and designing they had into political intrigue, they may well have themselves a military contract and order for the J31.
I have a feeling the PLAAF top brass has just about had enough of SAC's under performing nonsense, and seems to be determined to give it a very public and high profile disgrace. Which is highly unusual for China.
Normally, you would expect the looser to be thrown a face saving consolation prize, rather than be so thoroughly routed and disgraced publically.
I am guessing the PLAAF is being almost deliberately harsh so as to raise a giant red flag to the powers that be, in the hopes they will take a long hard look at SAC and give it a thorough purge to rid it of its toxic and incompetent leadership elements and their political backers.
Both cases are good examples of the contrary:
f-14a lost to f-18,when in 1990s it failed to provide something f-18 couldn't do well enough. Keeping it was too costly for lack of obvious profit.
Su-27 family, on the other hand, simply "killed" mig-29. Between two aircraft of comparable cost, Sukhoi family was just better bang for a buck. And soviet-specific features like ability to operate from barely prepared airstrips(European nuclear war, etc) don't really please anyone when you have to pay for something you don't need.
BTW, even in RUAF Mig-29 is almost totally displaced by Su-30SM.
f-14a lost to f-18,when in 1990s it failed to provide something f-18 couldn't do well enough. Keeping it was too costly for lack of obvious profit.
Su-27 family, on the other hand, simply "killed" mig-29. Between two aircraft of comparable cost, Sukhoi family was just better bang for a buck. And soviet-specific features like ability to operate from barely prepared airstrips(European nuclear war, etc) don't really please anyone when you have to pay for something you don't need.
BTW, even in RUAF Mig-29 is almost totally displaced by Su-30SM.
Well, right now it looks to be dead.
But they are keeping it around and still showing it...so time can still tell us somethingdifferent.
TW, the idea of getting rid of the F-1 wwas far more political than because of performance.
The intial F-18s, and even the Super Hornet, left a lot lacking when it came to the F-14 and its primary function of fleet defense.
Some folks decided after the USSR fell that the likelihood of they typeof defense had lessened to the point that they could go with a really decent aircraft that did a lot of things well...but not as good at fleet defense.
A lot of us still mourn that decision...just like we do the far premature retirement in the S-3.
Another crzy poiltiical decision.
When you have good solutions...at least let them live out their enitre ROI before you retire them for heaven's sake!
But they are keeping it around and still showing it...so time can still tell us somethingdifferent.
TW, the idea of getting rid of the F-1 wwas far more political than because of performance.
The intial F-18s, and even the Super Hornet, left a lot lacking when it came to the F-14 and its primary function of fleet defense.
Some folks decided after the USSR fell that the likelihood of they typeof defense had lessened to the point that they could go with a really decent aircraft that did a lot of things well...but not as good at fleet defense.
A lot of us still mourn that decision...just like we do the far premature retirement in the S-3.
Another crzy poiltiical decision.
When you have good solutions...at least let them live out their enitre ROI before you retire them for heaven's sake!
Good Grief Wolfie! sounds like you are going "joe stalin" on us and on SAC, crazy bud, they bring us the awesome Chinese Flankers, J-11, J-15, and now J-16, and those Flankers are very sweet and clean? look much better than the Russian birds.
Now on their own, they've brought us a very neat little bird, and u want a political purge?? Where would the PLANAF be without SAC, they wouldn't have a bird for that carrier, or the next two either??? So lets let them succeed or fail here like real business people? and don't whine when folks decry China's failures, we all have em, big boys and girls learn how to cry and move on to the next project.
- Status