Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

Vini_Vidi_Vici said:

The best way to think about it is thinking about a stick/baseball bat. When someone points a stick directly at you at eye-level, you won't even be able to determine the length of it, because you can only see the tip. When it's pointing towards the sky, then you can see the whole stick.

The same idea applies to airplanes. Sure, stealth jets can reduce RCS even when being scanned from underneath, but the fundamental problem is that they start from a large flat surface. The canard makes it worse. Comparing F22 to J20, from a purely technical point of view, not saying which is better. Hypothetically speaking, say the radar scans the jets directly from underneath, say there's only x,y plane, no third dimension. The canards on the J-20 adds to the total surface area to the plane. Say the total surface area of J20 is 110-120 and F22 is 100. Doesn't matter how hard the engineers try to reduce RCS, J20 can still only achieve to being close to F22's level (very hard to surpass it), because it starts with a very large area. It's like making a fat man compete with a 170 pounder to diet to reach 150 pounds, obviously the skinny one will win. He doesn't have to lose that much in the first place.

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latenlazy said:

I agree with the broader thrust of your arguments, but I do think that once we get to the point about how much surface area is facing a radar from the bottom view we should leave that to an actual measurement of surface area. Normally I would simply point out that while the J-20 has canards adding to area facing a land radar from the bottom, the F-22 has tail planes. Nonetheless you're right. All else held equal, it's the actual surface area that matters.

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Lion said:

When it's install then we talk about it.

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kyuryu said:

I think it's important to maintain perspective that the J-20 and J-31 represent a quantum jump in capability.

We could spend hours debating the relative strengths and/or weakness of the J-20/J-31 vs x,y,z platform and their respective degrees of stealthiness. The premise has been that the F-22A would pick-off 4th Gen fighters via BVR engagement before they had even been detected, working in concert with it's own 4th Gen platforms. This presupposes that the other side is using 4 Gen platforms, but with the introduction of the J-20/J-31 suddenly the tables have turned.

China, will soon be able to similarly field aircraft that can similarly dominate BVR combat, especially, if a metor type AAM, is fielded in the next 5 yrs, complicating the deployment of ISR, air refueling, C4I. The fact that the F-22 x% more or less stealthy kinda misses the point and the strategic shift that these systems have brought to the balance of power in the region.

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Air Force Brat said:

The result of a rich mixture gentlemen, we here in the OLDE country used to call the military high speed low altitude routes "Oil Burner Routes", as our airstrip was right under the Howard MOA here in central Illinois, low flying smoking F-4s would usually fly over as two ship, often doing the scissors manuever, to see who could get the drop on whom? They were often followed minutes later by another two ship of smokers, I just love it. Then the F-16s replaced the F-4s and they burned a lot cleaner and were much quieter as they approaced, but once past your could hear the air being ripped to shreds by those F-100s powering the F-16. I lived in dread of looking up at the last minute and realizing I was about to be a bug on the front of an f-16. but honestly vini was already on this one! Brat

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escobar said:

AVIC boss, Zuoming LIN (second guy from the right) in SAC 112th Factory. He was there for the maiden flight.
Notice the badges...

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ladioussupp said:

What are those things in front of people? Why do those on the rails have "ventilation fans"? Are those models or something else?

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delft said:

OT
Nearly fifty years ago I was walking at Schiphol when a BAC 1-11 ( two Spey engines ) flew over me to land a few hundred meters away and a minute later I experienced the horrible smell of those engines.

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