Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

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Air Force Brat

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As standalone structures? No worse or even lower in measurement. But that is not how total RCS is calculated: Sums the discrete measured figures.

The interaction between discrete structures is what made the corner reflector undesirable in RCS control. This make location, location, and location, just like real estate sales, crucial for RCS control. Corner reflectors are fixed and this make them predictable in terms of level of contributorship. Moving structures are less predictable. Put both fixed and moving structures on a moving complex body and we have internal weapons bays, absorber on leading edges, and other methods in trying to minimize returns to source direction. That is why we have to measure the entire aircraft despite the fact that we have binders full of discrete standalone measurements of individual structures, large and small.

We knew that with the F-117 with its many edge diffraction generators, as the aircraft passes through a beam, we have target scintillations. Not enough to attract the attention of 'pre-stealth' radar systems, but now that 'stealth' and how the principles works are known, we have to move away from that design.

For example...

b-2_rcs_control_maneuvers.jpg


Note what the comment said about maneuver restrictions in combat. Even as minimalist a design like the flying wing B-2, target scintillations because of low level radiation generators, like the split wing tip rudders to create asymmetric drag for turning, are sufficient to discourage its usage.

The Real Batplane, I saw one of these one evening at approx 15,000 to 20, 000 ft about 45 nm North of St. Louis, it was surreal, at first I thought it was a large bird, as we have lots of turkey vultures in central IL. It was flying in among some fair weather cumulus, this is also a very smart but expensive bird, why we only built 20. Like I said wait to you guys start getting all those bills. Then you will have a little simpathy for those Poooor little Russians.
 

Air Force Brat

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Chinese engines have their origins in British designs. China forgave the Brits for the opium wars in exchange for the technology and other friendly gestures. Chinese engine development was active since the 60's. It wasn't a priority for them until recently when their economy and industry attained a size suitable for military expansion. Now, you can be sure Chinese engine development is going full steam ahead. Chinese technology comes from multiple sources. Anyone doing business with China is required to provide some sweeteners. US technology is not hard to get if China want it, but it isn't always wanted because it isn't always the most efficient.

This just ain't so with respect to high end fourth and fifth gen engines, sounds nice and the fanboys will say oh yeah, thats right. [sic]
 

Air Force Brat

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You could just build the canards out of radar transparent materials (the same thing you build the nosecone with) to get around the RCS problem, or at least mitigate it significantly (you can't do the same to the rest of the fuselage, because unlike the canards, they have inside things like the pilot, fuel tanks and engines which definitely have very large RCS readings).

Of course, those composites might not be very sturdy, so the PLAAF would probably have to swap out the canards constantly if that's the case.

Actually carbon fiber composites are very strong as long as the resins and carbon fiber maintain their integrity. They usually stress fracture from an impact or poor bonding of attach hardware, the reason that many strutures are built around and bonded to the attachement hardware. But whereas steel or aluminum bend and deform, carbon may fail catastrophically, as those stress fractures hide in the many many laminations, and radiate outward from the initial fail, where as with aluminum you may begin to see the stress fractures as they are usually all the way through a given piece of material. All structures will fail catastrophically if you overload them beyond their design limits and they safety margin, which is normally 150% of design load? Engineer, Jeff Head, TUP, usaf0314 will be able to be much more specific.
 

ChinaGuy

Banned Idiot
That's a politic and from Mao. Chinese people have a very very long memory, most still remember (not angry) what the British had done in the past. What the British had done in the past to China was really very bad, I can't imagine how would all Chinese would forgive the British.

one of many very bad events by the British

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Mao was the leader of the Chinese people. What he said represented the Chinese people. So the British were forgiven when they switched from being aggressive to China to being friendly to China by providing jet engine technology and doing other good deeds. Further more, the British built a little gem for China in the way of Hong Kong, where China could acquire foreign technology, and served as a model for China's modern economic development. On balance, China's account with the British were settled.

The burnt summer palace was the result of China's dynastic arrogance. This was remedied thanks to the help of the foreign devils.
 

tphuang

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Mao was the leader of the Chinese people. What he said represented the Chinese people. So the British were forgiven when they switched from being aggressive to China to being friendly to China by providing jet engine technology and doing other good deeds. Further more, the British built a little gem for China in the way of Hong Kong, where China could acquire foreign technology, and served as a model for China's modern economic development. On balance, China's account with the British were settled.

The burnt summer palace was the result of China's dynastic arrogance. This was remedied thanks to the help of the foreign devils.

Let us cut out the Mao stuff here and stick with the aircraft.
 

Air Force Brat

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What ain't so, that China is incapable of developing engines after being given a helping hand by the Brits ?

Current high end engines in fourth and fifth gen fighter aircraft are not based on English engines, airliners-rolls royce ok, fighter aircraft no way and you know exactly what I'm talking about!
 

Air Force Brat

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Let us cut out the Mao stuff here and stick with the aircraft.

I absolutely concur, we do have something interesting to talk about on this thread, I am rather tickled to see this bird fly and have been anxiously awaiting, In my opinion this will be the Naval fighter follow on to the J-15, and its nice to see her making significant progress.
 

Subedei

Banned Idiot
In my opinion this will be the Naval fighter follow on to the J-15, and its nice to see her making significant progress.

okay, for those who believe that the j-31 will eventually be a PLAN carrier based fighter (which i do), care to offer any opinions on the ways in which the j-31's range and payload limitations, in relation to j-15, might ramify through PLAN carrier operations?
 

Air Force Brat

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okay, for those who believe that the j-31 will eventually be a PLAN carrier based fighter (which i do), care to offer any opinions on the ways in which the j-31's range and payload limitations, in relation to j-15, might ramify through PLAN carrier operations?

Well the PLAN like most navies who operate carriers will likely have these birds flying Top Cap detail over the fleet, not out on long range strike missions, A2A aircraft are able to perform their primary mission, which is to interdict incoming fighter/bomber aircraft, possibly cruise missiles as well, when their manueverability is not compromised by excessive weight like unnecessary fuel or weapons systems that do not lend themselves to Job 1, which is aircover! You might note that no us service personel have come under attack from enemy aircraft since 1953, this requires dedication to the A2A role, the Chinese would be wise to follow this model, note that the same criticisms are leveled against the Raptor by the unwashed masses who still don't get Job 1. In order to position the boat where it will be able to launch a J-15 strike mission the J-31 will have to be very good indeed, and it does have that potential if we can get the powerplants to optimize the combat performance of the little Black Bird!

PS, note that the F-35 is capable of carrying 10,000 lbs of fuel on the two inboard external pylons, and I don't know how old you are, but one of the koolest sights in the world is a four ship jettisoning external fuel tanks as they go guns up against the bogeys, prolly why it was on so many old flying movies of the past! Brat Out
 
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