Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

yes that is certainly possible

i think the Qing sale is just hot air, but somehow it grew into PN input into it? and also the J-10B?
i'll just say i'm skeptical about that, cause it is OT

the JF-17 is a well documented JV on the other hand

Air Force Brat said:

Yes Mig, thank you for proving me right, my AR-15 is a dangerous weapon as well, and if I have it in my hand some idiot will have second thoughts about coming in my front door. I'm not going around the neighborhood brandishing a weapon and scaring the neighbors, and nobody who knows me thinks I would do something that stupid. Thats called maturity and good judgement, Jeff head also has an assualt rifle, his neighbors likely know it and aren't afraid, in fact they are likely comforted, by a mature, good natured neighbor with sound judgement. The right to keep and bear arms is the right of all US citizens who are of age, of sound mental status, and not convicted felons, the 2nd amendment gives citizens the power to protect those other rights. So whether it is an assault rifle, aircraft carrier, or ICBM, in the hands of a good neighbor, its a comfort, in the hands of the village idiot, its a nightmare, and you will need to take it away from him or them before they hurt someone. Those F-22s help me sleep at night, knowing some idiot is not going to come over the horizon, but if they are ignorant enough to do same, well I think you get my drift, so don't propagate the nonsence that those Raptors aren't effective because the have'nt had to be used in anger, the fact that they haven't proves just how effective they truly are! Brat

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"I always scream before I leave my room to scare away the tigers in the corridor."
" - - But you have never seen a tiger in the corridor."
"That proves they are scared away".

timepass said:

Rhino & Paintgun, you took me wrong. I didn't say that PAF have their inputs on this baby.

I have clearly mention in my post that PAF will first evaluate & if possible they will give their in puts & that is only when PAF is intersted in this baby.

JF 17 was JV but J10B is not but PAF officials are extensively involved in J10B creation & same we have seen with Quing class SSKs where PN officials are extensively involved & giving their outputs which gathered from AUG-90B which currently they are operating plus the informations they had of Merlin & U-214 which on offer to PN from French & Germans since last couple of years.

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I understand what you meant. What I meant however is that, all nations who wanted to buy anything be it from US, Russia or China or Europe, would wanted to have their input on the items they are buying. Like when Singapore bought their first F-15, that aircraft was customised to the Singaporean's needs same as when they bought the Frigates from France, same goes for India when they bought their Su30mki and also their aircraft carrier from Russia. It was nothing new actually.

I would expect the Pakistani to have their own preferences of the aircraft that they will be piloting, be it a J-10B or the F-60 or whatever arms, they would want the Chinese to customise those aircrafts to what they wanted and needed rather than selling and getting whatever the Chinese are using. I can be sure that the version of J-10B or J-10 or whatever arms that the Pakistani now flies are different from the current versions operated by the chinese, really that is not that unusual or only the Pakistani is doing it

Next, what I see the J-31 was that... at this stage, no one (outside the circle) actually know what it was meant for. It might be solely for export, it might be for PLAN, it might be for replacement of J-10 or J-11/ J-11B, no one is sure.

Although many people are pretty sure this aircraft is for the aircraft carrier... but up till now... China only had 1 aircraft carrier, and who know when the next aircraft carrier will be inducted, and at present, they already have the J-15 carrier borne fighters which had not been inducted yet. So as and when the J-15 is finally ready, will it coincide with the J-31's induction and would it be easier or better to wait for the J-31 for 1 or 2 more years then to just buy the J-15 and be done with it?

Or would the number of aircrafts needed be big enough to make it worthwhile to keep two programs alive just for... say... 1 or 2 aircraft carriers?

latenlazy said:

SAC probably thinks there's enough time to convince the PLAAF otherwise. Get the project rolling, build a few prototypes, go through the testing, and market it to a large audience. Eventually the PLAAF may decide to be a buyer but if not they can aim for other markets too.

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That's not how it went with F-35. Several countries paid a lot of money even before the first aircraft was built.

PLAN might like large aircraft but for use on a flattop it has advantages to have smaller aircraft, especially for a pure fighter if you have already a strike fighter.
Designing for air base and aircraft carrier use is seldom successful, think of the TFX of the early 'sixties, but it is not as ridiculous as also having a STOVL variant.

People who mentions discrepancy between Liaoning and J-31, seems to forget that the J-15 is there to equip Liaoning for training and future combat operations

But have we seen catapult shuttle equipped on J-15's nose landing gear?

If there is none, then the J-15 will not be suitable for future Chinese CATOBAR carrier, or will require extensive testing and modification, the Su-33 itself is not a CATOBAR airframe

the J-31 may probably be the only aircraft used on future Chinese CATOBAR carrier, which will be ready when the J-31 is ready, incidentally similar time line? perhaps not

paintgun said:

People who mentions discrepancy between Liaoning and J-31, seems to forget that the J-15 is there to equip Liaoning for training and future combat operations

But have we seen catapult shuttle equipped on J-15's nose landing gear?

If there is none, then the J-15 will not be suitable for future Chinese CATOBAR carrier, or will require extensive testing and modification, the Su-33 itself is not a CATOBAR airframe

the J-31 may probably be the only aircraft used on future Chinese CATOBAR carrier, which will be ready when the J-31 is ready, incidentally similar time line? perhaps not

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I agree with you on the J-15 aircraft might be limiting in its airframe. However there are still a couple of questions left,

1) Would China's next carrier be ski jump or catapult launch? Had anyone came seen the line drawing or had inside info yet? I believe even the latest UK carrier that are being build are still using ski-jump (not that it really matter alot, just that China might also find that Ski Jump carrier is good enough for them. and Ski jump is also a proven design).
2) No one know for sure how the J-31 was built and what airframe it had... was it even for carrier?

China will ultimately deploy a CATOBAR carrier, and she will need CATOBAR capable aircraft

if the J-31 is not a carrier platform, which other fighter in development will be?

latenlazy said:

By that logic, every fighter that isn't a VSTOL is a wasted buy.

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with VSTOL you can hide a F-35 and basicly launched whenever you want from whatever place.

you can deploy it almost from any ship.

1982 and 1967 the harrier and israelies showed the importance of airstrips, in 1991 the first targets were the iraqi air bases.

In 1967 the Israelies destroyed the arab air bases leaving the egyptians defenceless.
In 1982 the British could deploy their Harriers from any ship while the Argentinians could not deploy their Mirage III, Kfirs and A-4s from the falklands in fact they needed to attack from continental argentina.




F-35B is a great aircraft, in fact that ability makes it a great asset because in any conflict the attack to the air bases is the first target of any air force, but F-35B can be deployed from any place

NATO studies in the 1970s showed that their air forces would have been destroyed like the egyptian air bases were in 1967 for such a reason in 1991 the US rendered useless the Iraqi air bases from the first day of the war

[video=youtube;VaTq_Q2X6tk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaTq_Q2X6tk&feature=relmfu[/video]
Contrary to what people think the VSTOL variant of F-35, has a great advantage and very complex engine but addding a touch of survibility no other jet has with exception of Harrier.
[video=youtube;nitBSlNghPs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nitBSlNghPs&feature=related[/video]

paintgun said:

China will ultimately deploy a CATOBAR carrier, and she will need CATOBAR capable aircraft

if the J-31 is not a carrier platform, which other fighter in development will be?

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Er... How would you know that China will ultimately deploy a CATOBAR carrier? And even by assuming that China will deploy a CATOBAR carrier, is there any indication that the J-15 is not catobar capable other than it was based on Su-33 as claimed by many online? Plus the J-15 flew in 2009, this year it is 2012, had the J-15 already been updated? All these are questions that needed to be answer before anyone can be very sure to say that this new aircraft that we are seeing are for carriers.

Also China is very good at keeping secrets (especially with regards to their weapon development.) So what you didn't see, doesn't mean it was not there. All I can say is that we have to wait and see... because it was too early to come to a conclusion as to what the J-31 are for.

MiG-29 said:

you can deploy it almost from any ship.

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Frankly... I would have to disagree with you here. You can just deploy a modern fighter (be it with VTOL or STOL or whatever) on any ship. If the ship's structure was not built for that type of usage, you can be sure that with that type of fighter on it, and taking off from it, you will either capsize the entire ship or cause serious damage to the ship.

rhino123 said:

Er... How would you know that China will ultimately deploy a CATOBAR carrier? And even by assuming that China will deploy a CATOBAR carrier, is there any indication that the J-15 is not catobar capable other than it was based on Su-33 as claimed by many online? Plus the J-15 flew in 2009, this year it is 2012, had the J-15 already been updated? All these are questions that needed to be answer before anyone can be very sure to say that this new aircraft that we are seeing are for carriers.

Also China is very good at keeping secrets (especially with regards to their weapon development.) So what you didn't see, doesn't mean it was not there. All I can say is that we have to wait and see... because it was too early to come to a conclusion as to what the J-31 are for.

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Unless China wants to operate a subpar CAG in efficiency compared to the USN, the only way to go forward is CATOBAR

I believe J-15 in its current form is a STOBAR, to accompany the Liaoning, and perhaps the next two indigenous carriers with ski jumps

i agree i might have speculated too far without more basis of evidence, well that is my current opinion about this bird