Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

Nilou

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Until Afghanistan's infrastructure for resource extraction is built up, it will remain a blip. It will take years, maybe even decades for that to change. The current Afghan government keeps trying to get attention from USA in bizarre ways, such as considering to recognise Israel.

I think Afghanistan's path should be to commit fully to Chinese infrastructure and investment. Once they do so, attention from the US will inevitably follow, killing two birds with one stone.
 

Minm

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I don't think people are understanding what I am saying here. The bri makes china more competitive which making everyone else week. As such, one function of silk road in Europe is to actually deindustrialized Europe. Over the next few years, just imagine what will happen to all the major factories on Europe as energy prices continue to escalate. While this is happening, the businesses can either close down or move to china or America. Having this efficient transportation like to Europe means Europe will likely lose more of their manufacturing to countries along the silk road. It will be faster and cheaper to ship goods from china than America. As such, china will build up a larger industrial trade surplus against Europe as a result of these efficient production linem. For the ones that can get through this, they are likely to increasingly rely on Chinese supply chain. As such, china needs to continue to increase capacity on rail line as well as adding more commercial shipping with Europe.

As for Iran vs Pakistan, that's a situation of trust. Pakistan is a loyal friend that has stood by china for decades. It is also possible that gwadar will be a future plan base. I cannot imagine Iran allowing china to build a base in it's country. On top of that, chinese firms control gwadar, so can optimize it in a way that prioritizes Chinese interest. As such, I think china would be interested in using Iran's rail, but won't be able to get too involved.

Also keep in mind that Afghanistan is a big part of this. It is a country that has a lot of natural resources. The development of cku to Afghanistan to Pakistan allows china to import natural resources along all these countries as well as middle east and Africa. I am not against going through Iran and Iraq to get into Saudi Arabia. However, that would require the sunnis and the Shiites to get along. Easier said than done. Gwadar is very close to the part of gulf countries that have population and produce hydrocarbon. It is a natural solution for china in the region.
Adding more rail links to Europe doesn't help Chinese exports much. Rail is still more expensive and lower capacity than shipping and the shipping lines will be open as long as there's no economic war between the west and China. It's a good addition to have those rail links to Europe for faster deliveries, but I think adding the central and west Asian markets, which are less well connected to the oceans, to China's export destinations will help the western provinces develop and that's another aim of the BRI.

I wouldn't ditch Pakistan over Iran of course, but as much as I would love to see China-Pakistan trade through the Himalayas flourish, it doesn't appear to be taking off and there keep being incidents of terrorism against Chinese people in Pakistan. China should continue supporting Pakistan, but can China wait for Pakistan to sort out its mess? The rail route from Xinjiang through central Asia and Iran into Pakistan might even be cheaper than the dangerous roads directly through the mountains from China into Pakistan.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't ignore the markets of the Middle East, which would benefit most from an integrated rail network with China. No, Iran won't allow China to build a base there. But economically, there's plenty of room for cooperation. Today, countries in the region receive similar benefits from trading with China or the west. In the future, the regional economy should become more regionally integrated and connected to western China. Turkey should be well connected to its Asian neighbours to pull it out of the EU economic sphere. Today, the vast majority of Turkish trade is with western Europe. If you want to turn Turkey into a Chinese ally, this has to change
 

AndrewS

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Adding more rail links to Europe doesn't help Chinese exports much. Rail is still more expensive and lower capacity than shipping and the shipping lines will be open as long as there's no economic war between the west and China. It's a good addition to have those rail links to Europe for faster deliveries, but I think adding the central and west Asian markets, which are less well connected to the oceans, to China's export destinations will help the western provinces develop and that's another aim of the BRI.

Rail occupies a niche where it is a lower cost alternative to air freight, but rail is much faster than sea.

So products with low profit margins such as laptops work out financially better because of the reduced inventory costs.
 

AndrewS

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Adding more rail links to Europe doesn't help Chinese exports much. Rail is still more expensive and lower capacity than shipping and the shipping lines will be open as long as there's no economic war between the west and China. It's a good addition to have those rail links to Europe for faster deliveries, but I think adding the central and west Asian markets, which are less well connected to the oceans, to China's export destinations will help the western provinces develop and that's another aim of the BRI.

Also, rail currently accounts for 16% of Europe-China trade.

An additional double track freight railway for trade to Europe and the rest of Eurasia is not inconceivable given the likely increases in future freight traffic.
 

tphuang

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More from this week on financial Silk Road.

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First news is CBDC testing from this week. This is just the start of e-currency. It's not clear to me if this will go anywhere, but the people in central bank want to get into crypto world. It has the plus of avoiding USD and the traditional financial transaction infrasture. It's also not clear to me how many countries are willing to get into e-currencies.

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more on the just explosion of Yuan usage by Russia. It makes sense for mineral companies to take out loans in Yuan if they are expected to get paid in Yuan from buyers.

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it's very important to promote China-Mongolia-Russia cooperation, including building a strong financial security bulwark and welcoming more Russian and Mongolian financial institutions to join the "RMB Cross-Border Interbank Payment System".
Yes, it would be good to get more country to join CIPS.
 

Overbom

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First news is CBDC testing from this week. This is just the start of e-currency. It's not clear to me if this will go anywhere, but the people in central bank want to get into crypto world. It has the plus of avoiding USD and the traditional financial transaction infrasture. It's also not clear to me how many countries are willing to get into e-currencies.
Edit: sorry, not Nilou. Its for @tphuang
The testing is part of the m-CBDC Bridge initiative. The countries mentioned in the article belong to that.

As for the goal of the initiative:
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The project aims to develop a proof-of-concept prototype to facilitate real-time cross-border foreign exchange payments on distributed ledger technology.
 

AndrewS

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More from this week on financial Silk Road.

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First news is CBDC testing from this week. This is just the start of e-currency. It's not clear to me if this will go anywhere, but the people in central bank want to get into crypto world. It has the plus of avoiding USD and the traditional financial transaction infrasture. It's also not clear to me how many countries are willing to get into e-currencies.

There are significant differences between the cryptos and the Chinese e-currency
 

tphuang

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There are significant differences between the cryptos and the Chinese e-currency
are you comparing the general Defi networks vs the centralized e-currency. The idea of using ledger and blockchain are all crypto concepts. The idea of using technology to improve efficiency of financial transaction is a crypto concept. You don't have to be a crypto token like USDT to be considered using crypto technology. Even when you trade on Binance, you are not dealing with decentralized network, but a central limit order book.
 

tphuang

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Adding more rail links to Europe doesn't help Chinese exports much. Rail is still more expensive and lower capacity than shipping and the shipping lines will be open as long as there's no economic war between the west and China. It's a good addition to have those rail links to Europe for faster deliveries, but I think adding the central and west Asian markets, which are less well connected to the oceans, to China's export destinations will help the western provinces develop and that's another aim of the BRI.
I mean China is also building the largest container fleet with COSCO
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. But in general, you have to deal with a lot more geopolitical risks, port congestions and Suez Canal congestions and just long wait time in shipping vs rail. China also doesn't manage most of the port. I read that shipping is 10 to 40% cheaper. Well, it's China's goal to make rail as close to shipping cost as possible. And that would rely on having more capacity over land and such.

Back earlier this year, we were dealing with like 1 to 2 months delays on shipments from China due to port congestion in China and at Long Beach port. And it's terrible for business to not have any certainty on when your ordered goods will get delivered. So, rail is the preferred transportation unless you really want to splurge and use air freight.

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If you look at this, rail freight prices can go up and down due to demand. Same with shipping. I think part of the reason why rail freight is more expensive is due to lack of supply. If you add more rail lines, it's entirely possible cost of rail freight will be competitive with shipping. There is a large Capex in building rail, but the actual operating costs shouldn't be that high.

All of this brings us back to the original point of improving efficiency of transportation between Europe and China to allow the EU deindustrialization to benefit China over America. There is very little investment by American elites into improving ports or shipping fleet. They want to let free market to do all the work. It's very short sighted to be so focused on military and not commercial infrastructure.

I wouldn't ditch Pakistan over Iran of course, but as much as I would love to see China-Pakistan trade through the Himalayas flourish, it doesn't appear to be taking off and there keep being incidents of terrorism against Chinese people in Pakistan. China should continue supporting Pakistan, but can China wait for Pakistan to sort out its mess? The rail route from Xinjiang through central Asia and Iran into Pakistan might even be cheaper than the dangerous roads directly through the mountains from China into Pakistan.
If you look at the map, Chabahar is not that far from Gwadar, so they compete against each other. There is not enough traffic to support both. Going through Iran will also reduce the need for that Middle East to Pakistani ports. I don't see Dubai by rail through Iran to China being faster than shipping to Gwadar/Karachi to China. It's not in China's interest to support major infrastructure projects in Iran. CKU -> Afghanistan -> Pakistan works pretty well. China directly to Pakistan is operational. It is in China's interest to continue investing in Pakistan.

Recently, the first land corridor with mostly rail service landed in Afghanistan via Kyrgyzstan and Uzebekistan. We will see how it goes. But you have to generally have some patience. Dominating Central Asian commerce takes time. China clearly wants to keep investing in Pakistani infrastructure for that quicker reach from Xinjiang to Indian Ocean.
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BRI related topics.

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This is the one that really stands out. China is setting itself up to be part all the intra-Asia traffic with BRI. of course, Japan may choose to not use BRI for most of its traffic, but there are cases like this with Central Asian commerce where they have to use Chinese railway or ports.

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also building a 3rd line from Kazakhstan to China will simply improve the economics of going through Kazakhstan to EU and being involved in Kazakhstan->eastward traffic. Just imagine, any Kazakhstan to East Asia, Western Hemisphere and probably even Oceania will be cheaper through Chinese railway and port. That's what BRI captures.
 
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