Self Propelled Gun/Rocket Launcher

Taiban said:

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This photo of same location may make you agree that the equipment profile is PCL181, PHLO3 & PCL191 from left to right

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Taiban said:

While the Tibet Military Region's Artillery Brigade has minimum one each of PHL03 (300mm) MLRS, PCL191 (300, 370 mm etc), PCL181 Howitzer (ideally minimum five from satellite images), the next photograph I am sharing is of 74th Artillery Brigade's 2021 image with a similar profile of PCL191, PHL03 & PCL181. So, the US ATP is slightly outdated and should be updated to include PCL191 at least in the profile of a Group Army Artillery Brigades since 122mm MBRL / MLRS have gone down to Artillery Battalions of Combined Arms Brigades

Will be more than happy to keep adding more evidence not to prove my claim but to understand the speed of PLA's Mechanisation View attachment 116386View attachment 116386

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I'm not sure you keep bringing up the equipment composition of the artillery brigades. It's completely irrelevant to our discussion. Let me remind you yet again –– for the third time –– that I'm challenging you to prove your assertion that a Group Army artillery brigade is made up of six battalions.

Taiban said:

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well maybe these Google earth images maybe of some help in confirming its Artillery Brigade of Tibet Military Region and its equipment profile

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These images are just as grainy and low-resolution as the other images you had provided before. Again, I don't care about what the Artillery Brigade is equipped with. That's never been the issue. Again, I'm challenging you to prove how you've concluded that each Group Army Artillery Brigade has a "has 6 battalions minimum".

Taiban said:

I will now share the satellite images of 74th Group Army Artillery Brigade at Dongguan, Guangdong. The images confirm minimum two battalions of PHL03, photo above confirms induction of minimum one PCL191 battalion, while minimum two howitzer battalions exist of different calibre (as per US ATP too). This generally indicates five battalions in the Brigade

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I can positively identify only 11 PHL03 launchers in the photo. I think you're confusing the ammo supply vehicles with launchers (see 2nd, 3rd, and 4th photo below). I have marked the launchers with red boxes and ammo supply vehicles with blue boxes. Yellow boxes are vehicles I can't positively identify because they're under some kind of camouflage cover and some may not even be vehicles. The green boxes are what I suspect to be ammo supply vehicles, because they are too long to be launcher vehicles, but they do match the dimensions of the ammo supply vehicles. Lastly, the black box with question marks might be a launcher vehicle, but I'm not sure.

So the image contains up to 12 PHL03 launcher vehicles, which is one battalion.



PHL03 launchers being reloaded by ammo supply vehicles:

Taiban said:

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well maybe these Google earth images maybe of some help in confirming its Artillery Brigade of Tibet Military Region and its equipment profile

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No, Google Earth images are still too grainy. Many vehicles are covered by tarp, so there is no way to tell what they are unless you have X-ray vision. Some could be launcher vehicles, some could be ammo supply vehicles, or they could be HMV3s carrying fuel tanks for all I know.

However, even if they are all PHL03s and/or PHL16s (300mm and 370mm), it's almost certain a significant number of them (up to half maybe) are not actual launchers but are ammo supply vehicles.

by78 said:

image contains up to 12 PHL03 launcher vehicles, which is one battalion.

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This is really funny.

Firstly thanks, My Lord for having the x-ray vision to accept 11 PHL03 launcher vehicles and not finding that image grainy.

Nextly, please tell me how do you know that each MLRS Battalion has 12 launchers only and not 18 or 27. Although, I know it's 12 only. Following your questioning methodology, I would ask you to please prove that each MLRS Battalion has 12 MLRS.

Every good army on a maintenance day takes out few vehicles for maintenance, usually night for a specialist units. I am really surprised with good quality sheds right next to it, PLA's 74th Group Army has displayed so many vehicles outside the shed during day. So, please don't expect to ask PLA to take out all its 24 PHL03 vehicles and line up so that I can prove to you that the Artillery Brigade has 2 PHL03 Battalions. I am not in PLA and had I been in PLA, I have had questioned the Brigade commander on his operational security

MarKoz81 said:

On the images I counted 63 vehicles that could match size with PHL-03 arranged in 3 groups of 21 vehicles

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You have brought all issues logically.
You have correctly identified 63 PHLO3 sized vehicles which are there together.

Firstly, it is generally known and accepted, that PLA's Long Range MLRS Battalions have 12 launchers each - as '78' has also agreed. So, 12 launchers requires 12 replenishment vehicles minimum. So, every battalion should ideally have minimum 24 PHL03 sized vehicles. Which means two PHL03 Battalions, one PCL191 battalion, that is three MLRS Battalions. While photos & images bring out two PCL181 Battalions, there is minimum one PL66 battalion (guns are lying away from the gun towing vehicle). So, there are six battalions in the brigade of Tibet Military Region Artillery Brigade.

This is purely from a representation of vehicles displayed outside the sheds. Now, if you see the numbering series displayed, with the case of 77th Group Army Artillery brigade (LX41), the vehicle numbers clearly identified for the PHL03 battalion were 5206, 5207 & so on indicate that PHL03 is the fifth battalion.

The US ATP talks about four battalions but doesn't include PCL191 battalion.

Induction of both PHL03 & PCL181 happened earlier as part of Mechanisation of Group Army's Artillery Brigades. Two battalions of each generally got inducted. PCL191 is the latest addition which makes it fifth battalion.

While many Chinese photos continue to show the PL66 or PLZ05 and PLZ05A (inducted to replace Type59 130mm), very few showed 130 mm some time back. So, as this equipment is being phased out, PLZ05C & Type 66 battalions are there which make the 6th battalion.

So, with every induction of PCL191 or PCL181 (as still happening in Division Artillery Brigades of Xinjiang Military Region), the composition of Artillery Brigade is improving as planned as part of Mechanisation and Informatisation.

The combinations thus exists in my appreciation is

A) 3-4 Howitzer battalions- PCL181, PLZ05, Type 66. Very difficult to notice 130mm still balance. Minimum two PCL181 Battalions each with one more battalion of the old equipment.
B) Minimum two PHL03 Battalions which has become three MLRS Battalions wherever PCL191 has been inducted. The induction of second PCL191 battalion in the Brigade will surely strengthen the Multi-Domain Precision Warfare capabilities which is the focus of PLA.

Normally I'd post this under Organisation/Structure but is relevant here. It appears that the supporting elements (Brigades) of the Xinjiang Military District are designated "84th XXX", and those of Tibet Military District "85th XXX". So, there are no 84th or 85th Group Armies, but there are supporting Brigades numbered 84th and 85th, as you find with the other Group Armies supporting Brigades.

Taiban said:

PLZ05 and PLZ05A

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Before I get queried on PLZ05, I thought I must share the PLZ05 battalion location at Zhongwei under the 76th Group Army Artillery brigade

SAC said:

Normally I'd post this under Organisation/Structure but is relevant here. It appears that the supporting elements (Brigades) of the Xinjiang Military District are designated "84th XXX", and those of Tibet Military District "85th XXX". So, there are no 84th or 85th Group Armies, but there are supporting Brigades numbered 84th and 85th, as you find with the other Group Armies supporting Brigades.

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Thanks.
The SOF, Artillery, AD, Engineers, Army Aviation and Engineers are numbered 84th and 85th Series. Was short of time & was asked to first prove Artillery Brigade composition

Taiban said:

This is really funny.

Firstly thanks, My Lord for having the x-ray vision to accept 11 PHL03 launcher vehicles and not finding that image grainy.

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What are you talking about?

I was referring to these images you provided as too grainy to make positive identification, and also because all the vehicles in them are covered with tarps and camouflage netting. I wasn't talking about Google Earth images in general.

You need to improve your reading comprehension.