Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

A

aksha

Captain
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Ahead of PM Narendra Modi's visit to Mos cow in December, India has asked Russia to allow IAF test pilots to fly its fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) to evaluate its capabilities.

"Flight-testing will help decide the way forward on the collaboration between the two countries on the FGFA. All options, ranging from an off-the-shelf purchase of 60-65 jets to joint production, are on the table," said a top defence ministry official on Friday.

The fact that India needs an FGFA, which combines stealth, super-cruise capability, super-maneuverability data fusion and multi-sensor integration on a single fighter, in the years ahead cannot be disputed.

For a country that is yet to even make its first indigenous fighter (the fourth-generation Tejas) fully-operational, the choice is limited While the FA-22 'Raptor' of the US is the world's only fully-operational FGFA as of now, the Russian Sukhoi T-50 and the American F-35 'Lightning-II' Joint Strike Fighter are the ones undergoing final developmental tests.

But having repeatedly rejected the FGFA overtures made by the US, India was slated to seal the project to codevelop and co-produce the Sukhoi T-50 with Russia at least three years ago. It was after all way back in 7 that the Indo-Russian in 2007 that the Indo-Russian inter-governmental agreement for the FGFA was inked. It was followed by the $295 million preliminary design contract in December 2010.

India, along the way , also slashed its requirement from the original 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat fighters to just 127 single-seat jets. The overall FGFA project cost for making all the 127 fighters in India was pegged at around $25 billion.

But technical, cost and delivery timeframe wrangles have kept the final design contract -under which both sides were to chip in an initial $5.5 billion each for prototype development and infrastructure - far away from being inked till now."The off-the-shelf purchase is being considered since the final R&D contract may take more time," said the source.

A cash-starved Russia, which is now cranking up its arms sales to Pakistan much to India's discomfiture, hopes Modi's visit will break the logjam on the FGFA. India, in turn, wants Russia to "compress" the delivery timeframe to around 36 months from the original 94 months, as was first reported by TOI.
Click to expand...
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
tphuang said:
Re: Indian Military News II



You confidence in the Russians really amaze me even after years of delays in all the major projects. Even the all successful MKI project is vastly delayed in getting a lot of the capabilities that Russians promised. don't trust the Russians getting new development done in time.

You have strong confidence in Rafale and that's understandable given that IAF picked the aircraft. And it is a much better overall aircraft than Su-30 in my opinion, but your assessment of F-35 vs Rafale is pretty aggressive to say the least.

My point about PAK-FA is that end users generally don't bad mouth a new product they've invested in unless the situation gets really bad. At this point, it looks like PAK-FA development might be behind J-20. And by the time IAF gets FGFA into service, PAF will probably be within 10 years of getting FC-31.

To me, PAK-FA at its current state is basically a stealth flanker like Boeing's proposed Silent Eagle design (and probably not even as stealthy as that). It's not a true 5th generation design based on Western definition what consistute that. Although, one probably can say the same thing about j-20 and FC-31.

My blog is here
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...

Mr. Smarty Pants here had his finger on the pulse of this deal some time ago! I'd say TP has been doing an outstanding job of reading those "tea leaves"??? history speaks louder than "ad filler". Sino Defense old heads always have an ace or two up their sleeves!

Great Job bossman!
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
aksha said:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...

I think many of us know the Indians have been taken for ride by the Russians on this little adventure, if PAK-FA were not in such "deep serious", the Russians would likely be more forth coming???

I'm afraid once the Indians actually fly PAK-FA, they will realize a couple of things?

1. Its a real "hot-rod"!

2. Its a long way from what it has been "advertised" to be?

3. If they spend more money on it with-out serious changes, they may be throwing good money after bad!
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Has anyone heard or read any indication or statement of whether PAK-FA has opened the internal weapon bay doors? Considering Russia is more open than China in showing off PAK-FA, and we have seen J-20 testing the bay door mechanics during a low speed fly over, I expect PAK-FA would have already done so long time ago, and photos from Sukhoi should have been everywhere like other high-resolution photos of PAK-FA, unless there is a serious problem. Can someone tell me otherwise?
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
taxiya said:
Has anyone heard or read any indication or statement of whether PAK-FA has opened the internal weapon bay doors? Considering Russia is more open than China in showing off PAK-FA, and we have seen J-20 testing the bay door mechanics during a low speed fly over, I expect PAK-FA would have already done so long time ago, and photos from Sukhoi should have been everywhere like other high-resolution photos of PAK-FA, unless there is a serious problem. Can someone tell me otherwise?
Click to expand...

I can't say for certain, it seemed to me that I recall the front bay open, but I suspicion that the bulkhead cracking is focused at the front of the rear weapons bay, (bulkhead station 23???) and or the verticals attach point?? I have also suspicioned since MAKs 2011 that the flying displays are somewhat more sedate than those of the SU-30s??? This is all absolutely conjecture on my part, though what we have heard is that the aft fuse is where the issues have tended to cluster?

Likely the main reason that the Indians haven't flown the airplane??? with the kind of cash they have invested?? one of those prototypes would have been "OUR" airplane, if I were the Indians??? likely the arrangement going forward, no more moo-lah?? until we are scheduled in the regular flight test rotation? starting NOW!
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Air Force Brat said:
I can't say for certain, it seemed to me that I recall the front bay open, but I suspicion that the bulkhead cracking is focused at the front of the rear weapons bay, (bulkhead station 23???) and or the verticals attach point?? I have also suspicioned since MAKs 2011 that the flying displays are somewhat more sedate than those of the SU-30s??? This is all absolutely conjecture on my part, though what we have heard is that the aft fuse is where the issues have tended to cluster?

Likely the main reason that the Indians haven't flown the airplane??? with the kind of cash they have invested?? one of those prototypes would have been "OUR" airplane, if I were the Indians??? likely the arrangement going forward, no more moo-lah?? until we are scheduled in the regular flight test rotation? starting NOW!
Click to expand...
Thanks, I would suspect the aft section of the fuselage too after studying the schematic diagram of PAK-FA and photos of it from all angles. Sukhoi also stated that one of their main challenge of their design is the strength of the fuselage. They specifically mentioned that the two vertical walls which make up the weapon bay also attach the engines. The walls and bulkhead that connects them have to be really rigid, and that is a challenge that Sukhoi has to address, this was Sukhoi's words. As I see it, the engines are only attached to the fuselage at their air-intake, nothing after. This arrangement will put very high stress to the aft fuselage especially when the plane does violent maneuver, TVC will also add twisting force. I think Sukhoi under-estimated the challenge.
 
b787

b787

Captain
taxiya said:
Thanks, I would suspect the aft section of the fuselage too after studying the schematic diagram of PAK-FA and photos of it from all angles. Sukhoi also stated that one of their main challenge of their design is the strength of the fuselage. They specifically mentioned that the two vertical walls which make up the weapon bay also attach the engines. The walls and bulkhead that connects them have to be really rigid, and that is a challenge that Sukhoi has to address, this was Sukhoi's words. As I see it, the engines are only attached to the fuselage at their air-intake, nothing after. This arrangement will put very high stress to the aft fuselage especially when the plane does violent maneuver, TVC will also add twisting force. I think Sukhoi under-estimated the challenge.
Click to expand...
Sukhoi has never ever made any statement about the PAKFA structural problems officially,

Currently there are four 5th — generation T-50 fighter aircraft undergoing flight tests in Zhukovsky. Two more planes are involved in ground tests — one as a complex ground stand and the other undergoes static tests.


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Click to expand...

in fact those are basically rumors, the only PAKFA officially out of the program at this moment is Bort 05 due to the fire


PAKFA has shown already two things that speak well about the structure, super maneuverability in public and the fact that the supposedly damage structure on bort 01 has pictures in September 2015 and the aircraft is flying
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


offically Sukhoi`s only trouble with PAKFA is financing due to the Russian economic troubles
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top