Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
thats what the google translation suggests
so 6-1 would be the rebuilt 055?? or am I missing something?? I expect it may fly anytime?? I rather expected it in time for MAKS 2015???

I realize there is no mention of 6-1, but I am hoping to see that roll-out, ground tests, and first flight before the end of the year??

thank you very much for your very well grounded and honest assessments, you contribute a great deal here, and it is much appreciated.
 

aksha

Captain
so 6-1 would be the rebuilt 055?? or am I missing something?? I expect it may fly anytime?? I rather expected it in time for MAKS 2015???

I realize there is no mention of 6-1, but I am hoping to see that roll-out, ground tests, and first flight before the end of the year??

thank you very much for your very well grounded and honest assessments, you contribute a great deal here, and it is much appreciated.


from the same person, an earlier post

According to the latest schedule, T-50-5R should make the first flight of 22.08., Transfer EDO 06.09. SUNGLASSES T-50-7 should be transferred to Zhukovsky to 30.09. Meanwhile, on the basis of ran- fuselage T-50-7 identified the need to strengthen the frame №23. Thus the timing of construction of T-2.6.50 significantly shifted. Now, the first flight will take place on October 5 and the transfer of OKB - 28 January. Such a large gap between these dates is due to the fact that the first plane will be fully applied PSC. T-50-8, respectively, for 2016 moves down.

Planned production time experienced aircraft 2nd stage:
T-50-8 - broadcast on FOX before 10/01/2015, the first flight - up to 01.11.2015, the transfer of EDO - up to 02.01.2016.
T-50-9 - docking of the fuselage - September 2015 broadcast on FOX before 01.01.2016, the first flight - up to 01.02.2016, the transfer of EDO - up to 01.05.2016.
T-50-10 - docking of the fuselage - November 2015 broadcast on FOX before 01/03/2016, the first flight - to 01.04.2016, the transfer of EDO - up to 01.07.2016.
T 50-11 -stykovka fuselage - January 2016 broadcast on FOX before 01/05/2016, the first flight - up to 06.01.2016, the transfer of EDO - up to 09.01.2016.

T-50-1 - on tensometry glider.
T-50-2 - replaced the right engine.
T-50-4 - a new version of firmware KSU.
Changed schedule for the T-06/02/50: Transfer to LIS - 09.07.2015, where it (after working systems) will be applied PSC, after further testing frequency 29.11. - The first (and only on KnAAZ) flight and transportation to "Ruslan" in Zhukovsky, where acceptance tests are completed before 12/30/2015.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
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Very nice Aksha, and I am assuming the white bottomed aircraft to be 055???, so sad to see her have a problem, but she should be "better than ever" shortly?
What may not often be apparent is that I AM a huge fan of PAK-FA, I love this airplane so much, it is beautiful and it flys so nicely. I don't mind critiquing her a little, and in all fairness, that is what flight test does, go out and attempt to "break the airplane", if it breaks, you go back to the drawing board and fix it?

I am very disappointed in Mr. Putin, and Mr. Obama as well?? they had a great opportunity to bring us into the future, and instead have turned back to the past?
 
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aksha

Captain
regarding the the the rumours about the IAF abandoning the FGFA
we should remember that IAF doesn't still know this plane.
it is only after they put this fighter in service that they themselves will know how many to buy.

for example The SU 30
originally
the SU 30 was orginally bought to help russia's mil industry from economic mess and a threat to sell the SU27 to Pakistan

then they went on to buy atleast 270

as they say
“A man never knows what he wants until he’s got it! Then he wonders how he ever managed without it.”

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"It’s a very good machine but we are not interested ” was Straight and firm reply given out by Chief of the Air Staff Surinder Mehra in1990’s when he was questioned about plans to purchase Soviet Union’s Sukhoi Su-27 Strategic air superiority fighter .Mehra further added that ” Su-27 does not fit in with the IAF’s re-equipment plans.”

Soviet Union’s Sukhoi Su-27 twin-engine super maneuverable fighter with its long-range interception capabilities and BVR missiles created a flutter in International Arms market. first introduced in early 80’s indirect rival to American F-15s.

Also Su-27 impressed many but it was not finding any takers till early 1990’s, it was smaller sibling from rival campMiG-29 Fulcrum introduced in the same period which was hot pick among many countries including Indian air forcewhich had already had picked up Mig-29s by then. IAF team after attending Singapore Airshow in 1990’s evaluated the aircraft on instance of Russians and found aircraft impressive but were vary about high operating costs and non-familiarity of operating Heaver class aircrafts in its operational history.

It is well documented that by mid-1990’s after collapse of Soviet Union, Sukhoi’s Irkutsk Plant without orders was on verge of close down but by then Russians resorted to pressure tactics and a visiting Russian defence delegation to Pakistan same year offered Sukhoi-Su-27 air superiority fighter to Pakistan Air Force, offer was later Protested by India, Which asked Moscow to maintain Regional Security Balance and to withdraw the offer.

When Mulayam Singh Yadav a reluctant defence minister was appointed in the HD Deve Gowda government he signed a contract to buy up to 50 Russian Sukhoi Su-30 MK fighter jets in a deal worth $1.8 billion, which many military analysts believed was forced upon Indian air force since with the Induction of Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 into IAF , Air-force was not suffering for want of a highly rated aircraft at that time nor was any such demand made by IAF . While Opposition alleged kickbacks and lack of transparency shown in the deal but without any hard evidence deal was executed by a weak Government in Power which might have crumbled to external pressures.

Su-30K jets which were delivered to India under a contract signed in 1996 were souped up Su-27UB two-seat operational conversion trainer modified with avionics appropriate for fighters. Along with its ground-attack capabilities, since Russia was unable to deliver Su-30MKI Configuration fighters on time and rest was history.


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Very few people know the actual tale of the development of state-of-the-art multirole fighter Su-30MKI, where ‘I’ stands for India. It has been hogging the limelight ever since it was first inducted by the Indian Air Force.

But there is an interesting tale behind the birth of this warbird; how, for the first time in its history, the Indian Air Force got a fighter jet tailored to meet its specific requirements for decades to come. Not many are aware that, like deadly BrahMos cruise missile, Su-30MKI (Multirole, Commercial, Indian version), is also an embodiment of the vision and foresight of India’s ‘missile man’ and (now former) President Dr APJ Abdul Kalam, who spares no effort in reiterating his immense faith in Russia’s technological prowess.

In 1994, ahead of the Moscow visit of then Indian Prime Minister PV Narasimha Rao, Russian state arms exporter ‘Rosvorouzhenie’ (predecessor of Rosoboronexport) invited journalists for a briefing on Indo-Russian defence cooperation.


In this backdrop the press was told that Moscow was going to offer India its latest Su-30 fighter and the Russian government has invited a senior IAF official to discuss the issue.

An old friend, representing HAL in Moscow, argued that no such plane exists and said Air Vice- Marshal S. Krishnaswamy would be arriving to evaluate Su-27 fighter, which was the best the Soviets had developed to counter US F-15 Eagle.

Eventually, India signed the initial Sukhoi deal worth US $ 1.8 billion with Russia’s Rosoboronexport (formerly Rosvorouzhenie) State Arms Trading Corporation on November 30,1996 for the purchase of 40 Su-30K planes and development of ‘MKI’ version and its subsequent license production in India.

At that time diplomats said that it was a major departure from the ‘buyer-seller’ relationship in defence with Russia and a confident step for transition to joint research and development of cutting edge weapon systems and platforms.

It was on August 15, 2002 that I got a call from the Kremlin press office inviting me to a tour of the Sukhoi Design Bureau with President Vladimir Putin two days later. Naturally the invitation was accepted with gratitude.

Sukhoi’s T-50 PAK-FA project had just won the race for the development of a futuristic –fifth generation fighter aircraft by defeating its rival MiG’s similar project, and there was a buzz about China and India taking interest in joining the Russian project.

As we were waiting for the President to arrive, Mikhail Simonov, the erstwhile chief designer of Sukhoi, who personally knew me, walked up to me and said that he would tell me the true story:

“When AVM Krishnaswamy came to our design bureau in 1994, he simply blasted our Su-27 fighter, considered the best in the West. I was very upset, given the fact that I was under probe on the alleged charges of treason for selling Su-27 fighters to China, I was rather depressed. So, I decided not to attend the evening reception hosted by the Indian Air Attaché in honour of Krishnaswamy,” recounted Simonov (1929-2011).

“However, my deputy persuaded me to go. I rang the bell of the Air Attaché’s apartment and Krishnaswamy opened the door with a welcoming smile. I saw a flower vase on a side table and was told to bring another of similar size and pour vodka in both of them. I gulped down one vase with vodka and challenged the Indian Air Marshal to follow suit, if he wanted me to come in and have serious discussions. Hats off! He did exactly what I requested and we got down to work and you see the result – the world’s best multi-role fighter. This also freed me from the ‘treason’ charges, since I invested the entire proceeds from the sale of Su-27 fighters to China for the development of absolutely new fighter with multiple roles,” he recounted.

“The Su-30MKI is the joint product of Sukhoi and IAF designers and engineers. The rich experience of joint development has enabled us to pick India as the partner in the fifth generation fighter aircraft on the basis of PAK-FA T-50 project,” said Simonov proudly, looking like a hefty Don Cossack out of (Mikhail) Sholokhov’s Nobel prize winning novel ‘And Quiet Flows the Don’ ”.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
regarding the the the rumours about the IAF abandoning the FGFA
we should remember that IAF doesn't still know this plane.
it is only after they put this fighter in service that they themselves will know how many to buy.

for example The SU 30
originally
the SU 30 was orginally bought to help russia's mil industry from economic mess and a threat to sell the SU27 to Pakistan

then they went on to buy atleast 270

as they say
“A man never knows what he wants until he’s got it! Then he wonders how he ever managed without it.”

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!




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Mr. Aksha, that does NOT give me a great deal of confidence in FG-FA??? but what I did say was that India is putting FG-FA on the back burner, and has instead stated that they will buy the -2 PAK-FA, as soon as it is available?? The Russians are wanting CASH to develop FG-FA, and to co-develop the Up-rated engine that will bring supercruise to PAK FA. The Indians are saying NO extra cash, but we will buy the -2.

It is my honest opinion that they will, and should purchase the Rafael in the interim as it will bring them a fully operational and maintainable fighter-aircraft for the immediate future. FG-FA may well be developed in co-operation with the Russians, but India is stating that they will purchase the -2. It does look like they are working to get the -2 up and running, and they are working the problems, and no doubt they will wind up with an outstanding flying machine.

After they have the T-50-2 in service, then they will likely turn their attention to developing a more Indian specific version.
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
:D:D:D

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T50_13.jpg


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T50_14.jpg
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
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:D:D:D

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T50_13.jpg


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T50_14.jpg

The "long throw" ruddervators look a little squirrely in that last picture, rather small with extremely long "throws" or travel, they are ably assisted by the 3D OVT, which is extremely high maintenance, but is a necessity given the very smallish proportions of the ruddervators themselves, the J-20 makes use of rather large ventral fins beneath the wing to maintain directional stability without OVT.

very pretty airplane, but proof that the vertical stabs are not going anyplace on fighter aircraft that are billed as super-maneuverable.

I would add further that is the real reason the F-22 got the nod over the YF-23, which used true ruddervators, "ala Beech Bonanza" and did NOT have OVT? and the real reason the AFB does not buy the whole "tailless" concept for fighter aircraft, for that matter the same applies to the concept of "pilotless" aircraft?? HEH! HEH! HEH!
 
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