Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[silentlurker]

Just what is going on with this plane? I remember when this aircraft was first flew. A whole year before the J20. (Which got me into this forum as a lurker the first place).

Where As the J20 goes from strength to strength. The SU57 seem to have a different destiny.

Not enough money seems to be the primary issue.That or designers are regretting the semi-stealth approach.

 

[Atomicfrog]

Just what is going on with this plane? I remember when this aircraft was first flew. A whole year before the J20. (Which got me into this forum as a lurker the first place).

Where As the J20 goes from strength to strength. The SU57 seem to have a different destiny.

The economy of Russia is not going so well, no money to do stuff fast and in number...

 

[eprash]

Money, pakfa was initially planned to be a joint venture with India with the latter placing a 100 assured orders with provision for more then Russians got greedy and refused to share the tech they even rejected the Indian request (who were basically funding the program at that time) for domestic assembly of Russian components,the initial understanding was to make a separate variant (tandem seat, domestic ew) for India based on pakfa airframe, In the end Indians had enough and pulled the plug on their part

 

[anzha]

The sanctions and relatively low oil price have not helped either. Russia launched its military rebuild projects when oil was at a very high point and pre Crimea.

 

[gelgoog]

Just what is going on with this plane? I remember when this aircraft was first flew. A whole year before the J20. (Which got me into this forum as a lurker the first place).

Where As the J20 goes from strength to strength. The SU57 seem to have a different destiny.

If you look at other historic stealth fighter programs the Su-57 is having a rather typical flight development program.

Compare it with the timeline of the F-22 for example.

The date when the first YF-22 prototype flew (1990), the first production F-22 aircraft flight (1997), introduction into service (2005).
T-50-1 first prototype flight (2010), testing flight of airframe for serial production T-50-11 (2017), delivery of first Su-57 aircraft to Russian Air Force (VVS) was supposed happen late last year (2019) but because that airplane crashed (pilot ejected safely), they had to build a new one, which has been manufactured already and is expected to be delivered this year in December.

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So is it late? You tell me. FYI the Su-27 program was particularly problematic with at least three prototypes crashing and two pilot fatalities. In comparison the Su-57 program has been relatively uneventful with no pilot fatalities and that single non fatal crash of the first serial airplane with none of the twelve prototypes crashing at all.

Also, FYI, Su-27 first prototype T-10 flight (1977), with entry into operational service (1985), with mass production (1990). Yet the Flanker series is considered a successful aircraft. More than F-22.

It is bollocks that the Russians don't have the budget to purchase the aircraft. Russia can purchase 128x Su-35, 161x Su-30, 136x Su-34, and you are telling me they can't purchase Su-57s which costs about the same as Su-35? The US only built 195x F-22s for reference.

There is no problem with funding for the program that I am aware of. Just the typical engineering problems any new fighter aircraft has.

 

[gelgoog]

Money, pakfa was initially planned to be a joint venture with India with the latter placing a 100 assured orders with provision for more then Russians got greedy and refused to share the tech they even rejected the Indian request (who were basically funding the program at that time) for domestic assembly of Russian components,the initial understanding was to make a separate variant (tandem seat, domestic ew) for India based on pakfa airframe, In the end Indians had enough and pulled the plug on their part

The Indians promised to fund the development. But in practice the money they actually put into the program was less than what you would pay to get a single production F-35 (without R&D costs). Russia was supposed to develop a twin seat aircraft for India and the Indians were supposed to develop the software. But they weren't happy with that, they just wanted to be able to build the entire aircraft in India. Or they wanted Russia to develop the aircraft on its own and only buy the finished product. So they left the program.

 

[gelgoog]

4+2?

Some think it's actually a prank and just this 3D model
...

It is a 3D model or some plastic model. But it is true that the Su-57 aircraft has two side bays for R-73 missiles in the wing roots.

There is a Sukhoi patent describing the mechanism.

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Also the ventral bays can carry more than four missiles.

 

[panzerfeist1]

Not enough money seems to be the primary issue.That or designers are regretting the semi-stealth approach.

Done a review on the Su-57

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its not like they don't have access to a anechoic chamber or Ufimtsev's equation like the U.S. . Its just that no one cant determine for example if one stealth method of not using S-ducts or a sapphire glass is a better or worse decision than what the other makes. Hearing big talks about stealth transparency meta-materials being better than the reflection and absorption stealth From Russia and the chinese claiming it making targets 1000 times smaller might even give them leeway for better aerodynamic performance. They have shown videos of ramjet detonation engines for aircrafts, projects for radars working with hypersonic aircrafts called thor, etc. So depending on speeds and altitudes they will achieve on other aircraft projects will possibly make stealth air to air combat obsolete but that is a different story.

 

[eprash]

The Indians promised to fund the development. But in practice the money they actually put into the program was less than what you would pay to get a single production F-35 (without R&D costs). Russia was supposed to develop a twin seat aircraft for India and the Indians were supposed to develop the software. But they weren't happy with that, they just wanted to be able to build the entire aircraft in India. Or they wanted Russia to develop the aircraft on its own and only buy the finished product. So they left the program.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[eprash]

If you look at other historic stealth fighter programs the Su-57 is having a rather typical flight development program.

Compare it with the timeline of the F-22 for example.

The date when the first YF-22 prototype flew (1990), the first production F-22 aircraft flight (1997), introduction into service (2005).
T-50-1 first prototype flight (2010), testing flight of airframe for serial production T-50-11 (2017), delivery of first Su-57 aircraft to Russian Air Force (VVS) was supposed happen late last year (2019) but because that airplane crashed (pilot ejected safely), they had to build a new one, which has been manufactured already and is expected to be delivered this year in December.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So is it late? You tell me. FYI the Su-27 program was particularly problematic with at least three prototypes crashing and two pilot fatalities. In comparison the Su-57 program has been relatively uneventful with no pilot fatalities and that single non fatal crash of the first serial airplane with none of the twelve prototypes crashing at all.

Also, FYI, Su-27 first prototype T-10 flight (1977), with entry into operational service (1985), with mass production (1990). Yet the Flanker series is considered a successful aircraft. More than F-22.

It is bollocks that the Russians don't have the budget to purchase the aircraft. Russia can purchase 128x Su-35, 161x Su-30, 136x Su-34, and you are telling me they can't purchase Su-57s which costs about the same as Su-35? The US only built 195x F-22s for reference.

There is no problem with funding for the program that I am aware of. Just the typical engineering problems any new fighter aircraft has.

SU 57 units itself won't cost that much it's expected to cost somewhere around 100M now that's the export price of Su-35, The issue is the program cost J20 cost only 50M but the R&D itself cost Billions