Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[taxiya]

Well, if the Indians are, in fact, out, this presents an excellent opportunity for the Chinese to get in! Hey, they purchased 24 Su-35, why not 24 Su-57 as well? What’s the price difference? If the Su-57 is supposedly half the price of the F-35, it can’t be that much more than the Su-35. According ti Wikipedia’s sources, they’re what and what (although this is somewhat incredible, to me).

Rumor has that Russia has invited China to be "partners" in the early time of Pakfa, China turned that down, then India was invited in. What would have changed that makes Su-57 more attractive today than the past?

I imagine that your argument is based on the assumption that Su-57 may cost just slightly higher than Su-35, that higher cost worth the VLO. But problem is that Su-35 in PLA is a stop-gap, something PLA prefer not to have but have to have right now before J-20 enters service in large number.

Last, but most importantly, Russia has finished the development of Su-57, what India dropped out is the FGFA (the twin seated variant) of Su-57. There is no benefit (gaining knowledge) for China to get in, except paying the Russians for their work, that is a big no-no.

 

[Hyperwarp]

Other thing is indigenization. When it comes to the J-20, when it gets WS-10X (and eventually WS-15 or an equivalent) every nut and bolt of that aircraft will be made in PRC. PRC has 100% control over the product and they can safely operate it without fear. Su-35 does not give this. China needed Su-35 because SAC cannot develop an equivalent. An export Su-57MKK will also not give this and Russia will never allow local manufacture of a hypothetical Su-57MKK. Even if they do, it'll be a stupendously dumbed-down version. There is no point putting money into it unless as I said before, that there is some catastrophic failure in the WS-15 program. If China wants to show solidarity with Russia, then they can simply invest money in the civilian sector especially natural resources. I think they are already doing this.

 

[Jura The idiot]

I have to go, so for now just checked what "six" Rogoway meant
No, The Su-57 Isn't 'Junk:' Six Features We like On Russia's New Fighter

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:

1. Side Facing Cheek-Mounted Radars
2. Infrared Search and Track
3. Directional Infrared Countermeasures System
4. Austere Airfields Welcome
5. 3D Thrust Vectoring:
6. Unique Weapons Bay Configuration

I'm guessing #4 is going to be fun if compared to F-35s LOL

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

there ar

I'm guessing #4 is going to be fun if compared to F-35s LOL

It's more of a General point really. If you ever visit a US Airbase even a reserve base it's a gulf coarse. Grass is uniformly cut, Roads, Tarmac and walk ways are prefect prim and freshly repaired. Most buildings are Pristine and polished.
The A10 is probably the one Aircraft in the USAF that has been designed for operations in the Russian Mindset when it comes to Austere. The Russians were convinced that if it came to a shooting war in minute one there airfields would be cratered as such they designed there fighters even the high end ones to operate from partially repaired and makeshift fields. There fighters have features intended to prevent damage from foreign debris to the engines and soft spots on the aircraft where the US would work to prevent that ahead of time. For example if you look at the dorsal side of the Mig 29 there are additional intake vents those are so that in a rough runway they con close up the main intakes suck in air from the secondary and Take off with out worry of debris like stones, loose pavement, Sticks, loose bolts and small aviation debris from previous aircraft., Vodka bottles, AK shell casings, empty food cans what ever happens to be on the ground getting into the engines.

 

[ougoah]

I have to go, so for now just checked what "six" Rogoway meant
No, The Su-57 Isn't 'Junk:' Six Features We like On Russia's New Fighter

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:

1. Side Facing Cheek-Mounted Radars
2. Infrared Search and Track
3. Directional Infrared Countermeasures System
4. Austere Airfields Welcome
5. 3D Thrust Vectoring:
6. Unique Weapons Bay Configuration

I'm guessing #4 is going to be fun if compared to F-35s LOL

Side facing radars and such feature on Russian fighters due to their general doctrine of unit self-reliance. Western doctrines make such features pointless with the superiority in numbers, sensors, AWACs etc they have. China is aiming to imitate that strategy at least in air warfare. IRST is old news why even mention. It's not like the one of su-57 is head and shoulders above its peers (and if so, it's certainly not shown to us so why assume this). Weapons bay configuration seems like a weakness to me. Small capacity (pretty much proven), bad layout (centre of mass changes more significantly than the conventional layout used by F-22) so really not any better than its peers. We've never seen a genuine photo showing capacity or firing. Why assume Su-57's weapons bay is something to be "liked" as they say.

Only reasonable point to list is assumed ruggedness (following Russian doctrine but still conjecture) and likely superior kinematic performance. Asymmetric nozzle directions with 3D TVC, LEVCONs etc etc. Rest of points are conjecture, bad assumptions, and plainly wrong, in keeping with the woeful quality of Drive reporting. May as well be reading buzzfeed for actual news.

 

[Jura The idiot]

I ROFL:

... IRST is old news why even mention. ...

"Though the Air Force is considering an infrared search and track (IRST) system for the F-22 ..."

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[Jura The idiot]

there ar
It's more of a General point really. If you ever visit a US Airbase even a reserve base it's a gulf coarse. Grass is uniformly cut, Roads, Tarmac and walk ways are prefect prim and freshly repaired. Most buildings are Pristine and polished.
The A10 is probably the one Aircraft in the USAF that has been designed for operations in the Russian Mindset when it comes to Austere. The Russians were convinced that if it came to a shooting war in minute one there airfields would be cratered as such they designed there fighters even the high end ones to operate from partially repaired and makeshift fields. There fighters have features intended to prevent damage from foreign debris to the engines and soft spots on the aircraft where the US would work to prevent that ahead of time. For example if you look at the dorsal side of the Mig 29 there are additional intake vents those are so that in a rough runway they con close up the main intakes suck in air from the secondary and Take off with out worry of debris like stones, loose pavement, Sticks, loose bolts and small aviation debris from previous aircraft., Vodka bottles, AK shell casings, empty food cans what ever happens to be on the ground getting into the engines.

F-35Bs ready for

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?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

F-35Bs ready for

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?

Perhaps i Over made my point, The Russians designed there fighters to operate from fields that virtually didn't exist. F35B and Harrier were designed to operate from basically helicopter pads. the downward thrust of there lift systems would mostly send FOD away from them. basically make a clearing slightly bigger then the jet roll it on to that and power up. The Short take off would allow the fighter to get up in the air.
SU57 is not a Short take off bird in the same way. It needs some length to get airborne but the Russian concept pushed for less care as to the overall state of the field.

 

[Jura The idiot]

Perhaps i Over made my point, The Russians designed there fighters to operate from fields that virtually didn't exist. F35B and Harrier were designed to operate from basically helicopter pads. the downward thrust of there lift systems would mostly send FOD away from them. basically make a clearing slightly bigger then the jet roll it on to that and power up. The Short take off would allow the fighter to get up in the air.
SU57 is not a Short take off bird in the same way. It needs some length to get airborne but the Russian concept pushed for less care as to the overall state of the field.

well I asked Yesterday at 8:46 PM

F-35Bs ready for

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?

because
“One of the biggest challenges we face in the construction of a landing zone is getting the sand to compact as needed,” said Staff Sgt. John A. Vasquez, an engineer equipment operator with MWSS-374. “It took my Marines 17 long days to ensure the pad was put together.”
Marine air supports ground combat elements during Steel knight 16

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[Phead128]

I'm surprise there has been very little discussion about India withdrawing from FGFA.

Nothing in PDF, Indian forums, Russian forums. Only on Reddit geopolitics forum was here huge conversation.

Someone please show me more discussion, I want to bask in the cry babies previously boasting about Indian Brahmos superiority with FGFA. Or Russians nationalist dismissing J-20 tech as junk.

For close to decade they boast about superior India tech, Russia tech. Now it's time to see how they rationalize this with nationalism.