Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

[Zool]

Ashton Carter says they are changing their bureaucratic procedures for ease of technological access to India. The Americans have promised a lot of ToT for Javelin and its replacement program. Btw, co-development requires transfer of all technologies. The Americans are willing to do that.

As for the FGFA JV, it may start very low, but will eventually increase over the course of the years, especially when the aircraft comes for MLUs or when new variants are developed. This is like the Brahmos development where India's workshare has gradually increased to the point where we are now launching our own long range program.

I think what you have written here on FGFA is about right. A good number of aircraft are likely to be inducted as the same PAK-FA system that Russia will procure. MLU will be the opportunity for India to make it's mark either with Russia jointly or in it's own unique variant.

TP wants the conversation to stay on-topic so I won't delve any further into US security policy with other nations.

 

[A Bar Brother]

I think what you have written here on FGFA is about right. A good number of aircraft are likely to be inducted as the same PAK-FA system that Russia will procure. MLU will be the opportunity for India to make it's mark either with Russia jointly or in it's own unique variant.

Mikhail Pogosyan said during AI-2013 that the two-seat version will happen after the one-seat is developed.

 

[Deino]

Mikhail Pogosyan said during AI-2013 that the two-seat version will happen after the one-seat is developed.

But surely only IF India is paying for the development alone ... Russia is not interested in a twin-seater.

 

[Franklin]

As far as I know all the stealth fighters are single seat planes. From the F-117 Nighthawk to the F-35 Lightning II and the same goes for the Russian and Chinese platforms. Why does India need a twin seated stealth fighter ? Why can't they just buy the standard SU-PAK FA ?

 

[A Bar Brother]

But surely only IF India is paying for the development alone ... Russia is not interested in a twin-seater.

The VVS does not "yet" have a two-seat requirement. And even if they don't have one, there is a plan to develop a two-seat aircraft because the export market demands one.

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And it appears that the FGFA will see a two-seat sooner that anticipated.

Anyway, both India and Russia will share costs, this is just like the Brahmos program. There are new versions of Brahmos being designed that both the countries are paying for, even if one of them doesn't plan to use all the versions.

 

[A Bar Brother]

As far as I know all the stealth fighters are single seat planes. From the F-117 Nighthawk to the F-35 Lightning II and the same goes for the Russian and Chinese platforms. Why does India need a twin seated stealth fighter ? Why can't they just buy the standard SU-PAK FA ?

It provides a new dimension in networked warfare where the AEW&C is replaced by a group of PAKFA/FGFA. This way there is AEW&C support even inside OPFOR airspace. So with broadband radars and a guy watching the airspace, he will be able to direct air operations with more flexibility in areas where there is no chance for a large and slow aircraft to survive.

 

[Zool]

We will have to see if PAK-FA get's a 2 seater eventually flying or not. My guess is it won't. Remember the Russian's already said no to India's initial request for a number of reasons. The simplest non-technical argument for rejection of a 2 seater was the increased cost and IOC delay the overall program would suffer.

By the time FOC is achieved with production in full swing, I suspect development work and funds will have been directed towards further refining the airframe and upgrading sub-systems, leaving little time or money for a 2 seater. The trend is after all moving away from manned systems (slowly and sadly where Fighters are concerned). The time of RIO's riding shotgun is coming to a close.

 

[A Bar Brother]

We will have to see if PAK-FA get's a 2 seater eventually flying or not. My guess is it won't. Remember the Russian's already said no to India's initial request for a number of reasons. The simplest non-technical argument for rejection of a 2 seater was the increased cost and IOC delay the overall program would suffer.

By the time FOC is achieved with production in full swing, I suspect development work and funds will have been directed towards further refining the airframe and upgrading sub-systems, leaving little time or money for a 2 seater. The trend is after all moving away from manned systems (slowly and sadly where Fighters are concerned). The time of RIO's riding shotgun is coming to a close.

The two-seat program wouldn't affect the VVS program. Theirs is a separate program with the PAKFA Stage-1 and PAKFA Stage-2. Right now, they have no need for a two-seater. IAF's FGFA has a planned IOC date post 2020. Even today it is unclear if the two-seat program for the FGFA is canceled or not.

The Russians call the VVS program as PAKFA and the IAF program as PMF. IAF calls their program as FGFA.

 

[thunderchief]

We will have to see if PAK-FA get's a 2 seater eventually flying or not. My guess is it won't. Remember the Russian's already said no to India's initial request for a number of reasons. The simplest non-technical argument for rejection of a 2 seater was the increased cost and IOC delay the overall program would suffer.

By the time FOC is achieved with production in full swing, I suspect development work and funds will have been directed towards further refining the airframe and upgrading sub-systems, leaving little time or money for a 2 seater. The trend is after all moving away from manned systems (slowly and sadly where Fighters are concerned). The time of RIO's riding shotgun is coming to a close.

Well, usual Soviet practice was to develop two-seater training version of their single-seater fighters , with somewhat diminished capabilities (well known UB versions) . Russians on the other hand tend to make those two-seater versions fully combat capable (example Mig-29 KUB and Su-30 developed from Su-27 UB) . I suspect there will be two-seater operational conversion trainer version for PAK-FA too at some point , especially when they move from expert pilots to average joes . Russians are more conservative in this regard compared to let's say USAF, which doesn't use two-seater trainers for F-22 and F-35 .

 

[Air Force Brat]

I very much doubt there will be a two seat PAK-FA, at least not for another 5-10 years, PAK-FA is lagging and the Russians will try to move the sched up, so I rather doubt a lot of divergent work will be attempted.