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Soldier30

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A batch of new Russian Su-35S fighters, manufactured in September by the Yury Gagarin Aircraft Plant, was delivered to the Russian Ministry of Defense as part of a state defense order. This is the fourth batch of aircraft this year. The Su-35S is a successful development of the Soviet fourth-generation heavy fighter, the Su-27. In terms of performance, the aircraft is almost on par with fifth-generation fighters, although it is inferior primarily in radar signature.
The aircraft have undergone a full cycle of factory testing, have been accepted by technical personnel, and have been pilot-tested in various operating modes.

 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Fifth batch delivered this year. They typically used to send like 3-4 aircraft per batch pre-war. So maybe 20 Su-35 aircraft delivered thus far this year.

If you read Western sources they always assume only the aircraft pictured, typically two, are what is delivered per batch. i.e. in this case 10 aircraft instead of 20.

Which I doubt. They managed to deliver 24 in one year in peace time.

Now they operate in "three shifts". Instead of a single shift 8h a day Monday to Friday, they work two shifts 12h a day Monday to Saturday. Instead of 40h a week with 1 worker, you get 144h with 2 workers.

This factory, KnAAPO, is producing both the Su-35 and the Su-57. But the thing is the Sukhoi Superjet plant is right next door and they can move workers around in an emergency. I also heard rumours recently they want to build a new fighter assembly building there and double the floorspace.
 
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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Stealthflanker said:
Yeah, with automation, opening the gate for remote operation.. further improving crew safeties as they can be away from the vehicle.
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A 24h/24 photocontrast/ir search system to give you situation awareness if there's something in the sky is clearly needed.

Don't know if they have something like that to help but you cannot rely only on the gunner to be 100% alert on 360 degree to detect small uav with a directional thermal system anyway.

I don't say gunners will not be able to shoot targets that they see, it's just that most will just pass undetected. Remote operation is even more important if they have no automated warning system...
 
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HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Tam said:
There's something called the Tornado-G. That's your modernized Grad with digital controls and so on. It's currently in production, and eventually they will replace all the BM-21 in service.

But today is not the day. Not when all the old BM-21s are still around and battle worthy. The old and the new work side by side. Why discard the old when it ain't broken? The users of these vehicles have practiced their manual controls so many times, it's second nature. Why discard an existing highly practiced skillset?

It's like driving old cars and new cars. The digital dashboards are cool and flashy, but sometimes they distract and I hit a point where I don't know what to do on the menu. In the meantime, the manual controls of old cars are intuitive to me. I don't have to think because it's second nature. The tactile feel of the controls are strongly affirmative without taking my eyes of the road.

It's like the D-30 122mm howitzer. It's oldie but goodie. Both sides use it extensively. Everything is manual. It's older than it's users. The artillery man needs to look up at a range table. When everything is muddy and dirty, those winches work. If they break it's easy to repair. The range is only up to 15km for a HE-FRAG shell without base bleed, leaving vulnerable to drones and other artillery. But it's reliable and it's accurate. It just works, day, night, snow, rain, mud. When something like the "Thirty" gets a nickname, you know people swear by it.
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Don't even have to change out the chassis. Just put modern fire-control system on it.
 
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pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
This article is more detailed:
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Fifth batch delivered this year. They typically used to send like 3-4 aircraft per batch pre-war. So maybe 20 Su-35 aircraft delivered thus far this year.

If you read Western sources they always assume only the aircraft pictured, typically two, are what is delivered per batch. i.e. in this case 10 aircraft instead of 20.

Which I doubt. They managed to deliver 24 in one year in peace time.

Now they operate in "three shifts". Instead of a single shift 8h a day Monday to Friday, they work two shifts 12h a day Monday to Saturday. Instead of 40h a week with 1 worker, you get 144h with 2 workers.

This factory, KnAAPO, is producing both the Su-35 and the Su-57. But the thing is the Sukhoi Superjet plant is right next door and they can move workers around in an emergency. I also heard rumours recently they want to build a new fighter assembly building there and double the floorspace.
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if they are working three shifts than its easily 75 to 100 Su-35 per year. since the engine production is like over 400 per year now. Superjet engine delivery for serial production is in 2026.
UEC-UMPO the largest engine plant plan to increase production by 60% for 2024.
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October 24, 2023

UEC-UMPO plans to increase production volume by 60% in 2024​

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There was late 2023 order to increase production of Su-57 for 2024. This city news from the Plant.
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The state defense order for Su-57 combat aircraft from Komsomolsk-on-Amur has doubled.​

The state defense order for fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jets has doubled in 2023, according to Yuri Slyusar, head of the United Aircraft Corporation. He also announced that the Russian Ministry of Defense has increased its order for next year's delivery of this aircraft, manufactured in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, according to the Khabarovsk Krai Today news agency, citing Radio Sputnik.
Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft manufacturers will have more work next year as well.
Earlier, the state corporation Rostec, which includes UAC, announced that the Russian defense industry had equipped the Su-57 aircraft with
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(engine), the performance of which is beyond the capabilities of American, Japanese, and Chinese developers. The new powerplant enables supersonic speeds without afterburners. The Su-57 fighter is also capable of landing and taking off on extremely short runways.
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later in 2024 after Chinese airshow participation by Su-57 and Su-57E for exports. even more articles appeared where the word "The" is used often. New Stealth technologies. which highly likely referring to different variants of Su-57 in electronics and Stealth. Russia is more confident not just in excess production for exports but also more variations in tech.
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The Su-57 is a fifth-generation multirole fighter designed with new stealth technologies by the renowned Russian aircraft manufacturer Sukhoi
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Physics explains the exceptional stealth capabilities of the Russian Sukhoi Su-57 fighter​

Scattering Physics​

Sixth-generation aircraft such as the Sukhoi Su-57 rely on several fundamental principles of physics to reduce their radar cross section, primarily by reducing the amount of radar waves reflected back to enemy radars
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HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Tam said:
That one has a brand new chassis

Tornado-G units use fragmentation resistant cabins and chassis.
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I know, I posted the link just to paint the picture.

Russia doesn't need to rebuild the entire chassis. Just install a new digital, robotized fire-control system with "good-enough" accuracy. BM-21 is an area of effect weapon anyway.
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
HighGround said:
I know, I posted the link just to paint the picture.

Russia doesn't need to rebuild the entire chassis. Just install a new digital, robotized fire-control system with "good-enough" accuracy. BM-21 is an area of effect weapon anyway.
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Nope. Why put an expensive system on an old chassis with a limited life anyway? That's like putting a brand new expensive infotainment system on an old beat up car. Not to mention you don't know if the vehicle's electrical system can handle the loads. The infotainment system will outlive the remaining life of the car.

Instead if you have not noticed, brand new fire control systems are installed on brand new fragmentation resistant chassis. They just took out the old trailer with the rocket launchers on top, and reconnected it to the new chassis. Brand new trailers connected to old rocket launchers. That's what they have been doing with the Uragans and Smerchs. The latter is turned into the Tornado-S system.

On top of that, the chassis with the fragmentation resistant cabin also helps protect the expensive electronics. There's going to be issues with cooling the electronics, dust filtration on an old chassis not meant for these, but on a new chassis, you can make provisions for that. It's more than just protecting the fire control system, a new chassis makes it easier to add EW modules. The new chassis can hold a generator that has enough juice for the fire control system and the EW modules.
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
A mental note for my own.

I previously assumed the 2S19M2 and the 2S33 are the same vehicle. They are not.

2S19 --- Original MSTA-S, 780hp engine, 2A65 152mm L49. 24.5km range, no base bleed rounds.

2S19M1 - 840hp engine, GLONASS, new digital FC, 2A65 152mm L53. ROF 6-8 rounds per minute

2S19M2 - New FC. ROF up to 8-10 rounds per minute.

2S33 - Gun changed to 2A79 152mm L60. Unguided round, no base bleed, up to 40km. Current production model.
 
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HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
So I just did some more Googling and it turns out that such a BM-21 variant does exist. It’s Tornado-G which is b asically what I’ve been complaining about. Crew down to 2 men, on the same Ural-4320 truck, same 122mm rockets, automated, with an FCS. In production since mid 2010s.

Don’t understand why there’s still so many old BM-21s on the frontline still (seems like the vast majority), but it is what it is.
 
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