To be fair Moskva was built in Ukraine so they knew the ship inside and out.
Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter tphuang
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
There is an easier option which is that the Russian Navy wasn’t ready for an Aircraft carrier and still isn’t.
Remember the Liaoning, she wasn’t bought from Russia she was bought from Ukraine. The Soviet navy was dependent on the Mykolaiv north and South for much of its larger tonnage ships. All the Russian Carriers were built in the Ukrainian yards.
When the Soviet Union collapsed the Liaoning and Kuznetsov were both in docks in Mykolaiv neither was complete the Liaoning was the less complete of the two.
Because of that when Ukraine declared independence she should have ended up in the Ukrainian Navy, However On the day of the Ukrainian independence vote. Half the crew of the Kuznetsov mutinied and stole the ship setting sail to the Northern fleets.
On arrival she ran into problems as none of the other fleet yards of the Soviet Union now Russian Navy were set up to support an Aircraft carrier. Despite only actual at sea service being less than a cumulative year and a half the Kuznetsov has had to burn her boilers and systems like she was in constant service. This is due to the fact that infrastructure was lacking or never planned by combination of short sight or corruption.
You might recall in 2018 the only dry dock the Russian Navy had large enough to support the Kuznetsov sank well the Carrier was inside of it. That event happened after said dry dock lost power. The Dock had back up generators that could have prevented this accident but the head of the Yard pocketed the money for the diesel fuel.
The Carrier has had to be towed by tug on a number of occasions due to breakdown.
The USN was on at least one occasion prepared to render humanitarian assistance when it ran out of drinking water.
At least this time they had enough aircraft for the deck. One of the previous Soviet carriers had more pilots than aircraft so to keep them dastardly westerners scared when near NATO Intelligence aircraft, aircraft being cycled would be shuffled below decks repainted a new number and then moved back up. Russian Carrier program is basically a black comedy, made all the blacker by fact it’s reality.
the easier answer is russia can’t afford both real blue water surface navy and a real blue water submarine fleet. In its current relative technological and geopolitical position, it has to chose one or the other. In some realistic scenarios such blue water navy it can build will be wiped out without achieving anything. while a submarine fleet it can afford has much better chance of surviving to fulfill a useful strategic role in even a worst case. So it is blustering about building a surface navy but really will be devoting its meager and in many ways second rate national resources to a submarine fleet. it will never build a real carrier again, not because in its estimation carrier’s days are over, but russia’s data of being able protect a strategic asset like a carrier in serious strategic situations is over.
Russia exported Carrier to India on lowest budget along with Pilot and crew training . Russia built upto 80 MIG-29K fighters in strike configuration 3 external fuel tank with strike weopon takeoffs. i am sure those fighters went through certification trials on a Carrier.
Russian supervision also built this one.
it is stupid to think they cannot design and built carrier for 21st century when they can built much complex mechanical engineering products. I am sure Russians have looked into it and reject it as they may not be suitable for high tempo operations against high end rivals.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
A carrier they converted from a previous Kiev Class Carrier cruiser they had intended to scrap. As such most of the work had been done on construction. they needed to build a new super structure. It’s also a project they were well behind schedule for. Yes they trained the pilots. If anything though Indian bankrolled the Russian Naval aviation training and new aircraft buys.
It’s not a question of design it’s a question of resources. If they can barely sustain the Kuznetsov how do they build another one? If they only have one dry dock large enough to handle the carrier and large cruiser where does the one go? The Soviets had substantially more resources available to them than modern Russia yet they were pledged by the same problems of shortages and Systemic corruption. The Russian military’s own prosecutor has stated as much as a fifth of the Russian military procurement dollars are eaten up by corruption.
You say that like it's nothing.
Talking about serial production dates about a plane before you've even made a prototype is being a bit...optimistic.
Russia has no problems filling foreign export orders. It can use the money earned to buy the foreign technology to plug the gaps in it's own domestic production.
That's not an option for its own domestic fleet which is apparently made only with domestic Russian components.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Yeah about that.
It’s not just the chips, French fire control systems, German engines. The list goes on but globalization. A lot of Russian military hardware is loaded with imported guts.
I made the same point in another thread, but according @gelgoog it was bollocks...
Of course, you could make the same point about a lot of American technology which is filled with Chinese made components. As long as it's multiuse components being sold on the commercial market in the millions it will be impossible to stop.
As for French or German companies actually selling entire military subsystems to Russia, in the words of Lenin; "capitalists will sell us the rope we use to hang them"
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Cummins Diesels power plenty of Russian and Chinese Military vehicles. We have even joked about windows XP in the PLA. It’s globalization.
that was done 15 years ago. now more complex projects they can take if they choose.
Carrier construction is nothing. it only need certification of runway for 25 tons MIG-29K on pointed load smaller aircraft that hard part.
do you really think tiny amount of $1.5b spread over many years can bankroll Russian Naval aviation? Just give you hint. Russia had trade surplus close to $150b in 2007-2008 period. and $600b foreign reserves. just one project they got loan of $25b from China in 2009.
It was Russia giving favor to India to deal with such tiny amount. as they have plenty of investors from Germanic world to utilize labor more efficiently.
Russia produced as much streel as North America with much smaller automobile industry. They are resource surplus by all standard of measure. its about effectiveness of firepower that produce minimum disruption to Civil life.