Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

pmc

Major
Registered Member
if russia is able to build civilian airliners 100%, then why is almost 100% of its own civilian airliner fleet consist of planes that are 100% foreign made? People forget Russia is a third rate country with a first rate nuclear arsenal, and think it is somehow a country with first rate capability can somehow have that capability be overlooked.
before the crises it was far cheaper to source Airbus from Europe due to low interest leases, loans, maintenance services. Russia has to use somehow its trade surpluses with Europe. now labor allocations is changing to civil aviation industry. that will boost numbers.
this is private airline in current conditions. i dont see 100%.
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you cannot make 4th /5G nuclear reactors with 3rd rate education. if India wants more and more Nuclear electricity. it will have to buy other Russian resources. this is creating bargaining power through investments in heavy engineering.
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I think you are conflating technology with industrial capability when saying Russia MIC is leading edge. There are a lot of area technology wise where Russia is still quite advanced, but it has fallen quite far behind in terms of industrial capability. It's MICs is simply incapable of producing stuff at the same rate as Chinese or American MIC (at least an order of magnitude lower).
The US MIC can produce more of what? Stinger missiles? Good luck producing those.
The US cannot produce more tanks either. The US have only refurbished tanks for many, many years.
The US can probably produce more armored jeeps and MRAPs given decades of investing on those kinds of vehicles for the Global War on Terror and larger auto industry base. But even then remember a lot of those MRAPs were imported. And try looking at the list of countries which can produce the Tigr... if Russia needed to they can import light vehicles too.
Russia does not even need to send imported vehicles to Ukraine. Just use them to replace existing stock in Russia for defense purposes.
The US can produce more combat aircraft, but Russia hasn't been losing many of those.
The US can produce more ships too. Going to send those to Ukraine? Good luck going into the closed Black Sea while Russia has S-400, Bastion, and airfields with naval Su-30SM in Crimea.

And over the past 30 years, it has basically taken the easy step of buying electronics from Western countries to put on its military hardware rather than developing its own modern electronics supply chain. That's really hurt its military production as Western countries placed embargoes on Russia.
If any of the US aligned countries, including the US, were put under similar sanctions in isolation their semiconductor industries would creak too. Russia's electronics industry is sufficient for the MIC. The F-35 uses older process CPUs than the Su-57. The Su-57 CPUs use 90nm process and even the latest F-35 doesn't even use that. Russia's electronics industry is insufficient for civilian demand. So what? Do you think you would get your NVIDIA graphics card if someone nuked Taiwan and South Korea tomorrow?

if russia is able to build civilian airliners 100%, then why is almost 100% of its own civilian airliner fleet consist of planes that are 100% foreign made? People forget Russia is a third rate country with a first rate nuclear arsenal, and think it is somehow a country with first rate capability can somehow have that capability be overlooked.
The Superjet is not 100% foreign made and there are 172 of those. Russia managed to make something Japan did not. Make a regional jet. As a product of the times the Superjet was made in collaboration with Western companies and uses several Western components which should be replaced in 2 years time. Try reading about the Superjet-NEW project. The MC-21 is more advanced than the A320NEO let alone that old carcass the 737MAX. Russia does not use Russian planes because of several things. A lot of the Soviet Union produced aircraft did not meet European emissions and noise standards. So making international flights with them became a problem. After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the crash market economy drive there was a lack of capital inside Russia. So it was easier for Russian aircraft companies to buy aircraft on lease than up front. Regardless of how cheap the Russian aircraft were. Russia today has its own robust financial system so that has stopped being a problem for a long time. Russia currently cannot manufacture enough aircraft to satisfy its own demand 100% with internal components. But in 5 years time you will see the Superjet-NEW and MC-21 be in full production. And in 10 years they will more than satisfy internal demand.
 
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tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
The US MIC can produce more of what? Stinger missiles? Good luck producing those.
The US cannot produce more tanks either. The US have only refurbished tanks for many, many years.
The US can probably produce more armored jeeps and MRAPs given decades of investing on those kinds of vehicles for the Global War on Terror and larger auto industry base. But even then remember a lot of those MRAPs were imported. And try looking at the list of countries which can produce the Tigr... if Russia needed to they can import light vehicles too.
Russia does not even need to send imported vehicles to Ukraine. Just use them to replace existing stock in Russia for defense purposes.
The US can produce more combat aircraft, but Russia hasn't been losing many of those.
The US can produce more ships too. Going to send those to Ukraine? Good luck going into the closed Black Sea while Russia has S-400, Bastion, and airfields with naval Su-30SM in Crimea.


If any of the US aligned countries, including the US, were put under similar sanctions in isolation their semiconductor industries would creak too. Russia's electronics industry is sufficient for the MIC. The F-35 uses older process CPUs than the Su-57. The Su-57 CPUs use 90nm process and even the latest F-35 doesn't even use that. Russia's electronics industry is insufficient for civilian demand. So what? Do you think you would get your NVIDIA graphics card if someone nuked Taiwan and South Korea tomorrow?


The Superjet is not 100% foreign made and there are 172 of those. Russia managed to make something Japan did not. Make a regional jet. As a product of the times the Superjet was made in collaboration with Western companies and uses several Western components which should be replaced in 2 years time. Try reading about the Superjet-NEW project. The MC-21 is more advanced than the A320NEO let alone that old carcass the 737MAX. Russia does not use Russian planes because of several things. A lot of the Soviet Union produced aircraft did not meet European emissions and noise standards. So making international flights with them became a problem. After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the crash market economy drive there was a lack of capital inside Russia. So it was easier for Russian aircraft companies to buy aircraft on lease than up front. Regardless of how cheap the Russian aircraft were. Russia today has its own robust financial system so that has stopped being a problem for a long time. Russia currently cannot manufacture enough aircraft to satisfy its own demand 100% with internal components. But in 5 years time you will see the Superjet-NEW and MC-21 be in full production. And in 10 years they will more than satisfy internal demand.
Do you really want to compare how many military aircraft and how many of naval ships us mic has produced in the recent years vs Russia?
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Do you really want to compare how many military aircraft and how many of naval ships us mic has produced in the recent years vs Russia?
So you basically are focusing on the very items which thus far have had the least relevance to this campaign. I mean Russia hasn't lost that many jet aircraft. Other than Su-25 Frogfoots and they have loads of those in storage. The US isn't producing the A-10 anymore either. Well. Let us go sector by sector then. How many twin jet fighter aircraft has the US produced over the past two decades, and how many has Russia produced? I will give you a hint. The US produced less twin jet fighters than Russia. The US has produced gazillions of F-35s but that is a multinational program so it isn't being produced only with US components. And those are single engine aircraft. Russia has produced hundreds of Flankers for itself. And in addition to that it has sold hundreds more AL-31 engines for China to put in its Flankers and J-10. Or for India to put in its Flankers. Yep you just forgot about all those engines. Only with the J-16 and J-10C has China started using its own engines.

And sure, the naval industry was mostly in Ukraine after the Soviet Union collapsed, and Russia stubbornly insisted on throwing Ukraine a bone and letting them make the marine engines. And because of that and the 2014 coup all the surface naval construction program was delayed by like a decade. But it is not like Russia has done nothing in that time. They refurbished a lot of their existing shipyards. And they opened up new ones. In strategic nuclear submarines, right now, Russia is certainly ahead in terms of production and modernized design. In attack submarines, they have like half the production rate, because they used to build nuclear attack submarines at two shipyards in Soviet times, and now they only build at Sevmash. But guess what the other submarine shipyard still exists in the Far East. It is building corvettes right now. It had loads of issues with management and staffing but they finally got that sorted out.

Frigate production is also still low because of issues with scaling up production of certain components. But they have at least two shipyards which have built frigates recently. If they manage to fix the issue with sourcing components, get it being produced in two shipyards, and put more orders in I think they could triple or quadruple the production of frigates. There are also like two other shipyards which still are operational which did build frigates in Soviet times so they have a dry dock large enough to build frigates. And they do have facilities large enough to build destroyers or cruisers if it came to that. But given the problems sourcing the components for the frigates it was still too early to build destroyers. The cruiser program was also delayed but that shipyard has been building nuclear icebreakers. So they still have shipbuilding capabilities. The major issue is large surface combatants like LHDs or supercarriers. They do not have enough dry dock capacity to match the US for those. Let alone the rest of the required facilities. They are currently building two LHDs in one shipyard. They do have the nuclear reactors to make a supercarrier, like I said elsewhere, they are building RITM-400 reactors for the Leader icebreaker right now.

if russia is able to build civilian airliners 100%, then why is almost 100% of its own civilian airliner fleet consist of planes that are 100% foreign made?
Oh right I also forgot about this. But Russia can produce the Tu-204 and Il-96 with 100% of its own components. But those are previous generation aircraft similar to the Boeing 757 and Airbus A340. There is little point producing the Tu-204 for the civilian market once the indigenous MC-21 comes out. And the Il-96 as a quad engine is obsolete and is supposed to be replaced with the CRAIC CR929 eventually.

A more realistic indication of russia’s true capabilities is to be seen from the fact that her G5 fighter fleet still consist of one fewer planes than fingers on one hand
So how many countries have 5th gen aircraft? Three. If Russia just converted Flanker production to the Su-57 they could easily get to similar numbers to the US F-22 fleet in maybe 3 years. But they don't want to increase production until the Su-57M design is finalized. Maybe this war will change their perception. But in their point of view they want a 5+ aircraft and not a 5 gen one. As is the Su-57 design is better than the F-22.

and those 5 are of notably inferior fabrication quality compare to their vastly more numerous American and chinese contemporaries
"notably inferior". People look at pictures of the hand made prototypes and compare those with production aircraft. You know what the level of finishing detail in the production aircraft is a lot better. And you know what, the F-22 and F-35 are disasters in terms of combat availability. Russia can't afford a non-economic design like that where most aircraft have to sit in the tarmac waiting for repairs.

and she has commission no new warship larger than about 6000 tons in over 20 years
They have built 20000 tons nuclear icebreakers. And the nuclear submarines are larger than 6000 tons. The Borei is close to 15000 tons.
Like I said, lack of availability of components, like the gas turbines which used to be the domain of Ukraine. Used to.

and her fancy new tank needed to be towed off of the first parade they attended.
Yes. Because the driver engaged the parking brake. Try doing that and see what will happen to your car. When they figured that out and disengaged the parking brake the tank rolled out just fine. They figured it out after trying to tow it, and it still wouldn't move. You eat too much Western propaganda.

she is a third rate nation going through the motions of punching far above her weight, hoping no one will notice her light weight. but her light weight is showing more snd more clearly with each punch motion she goes through.
Russia has 145 million people. How much do you want them to do?
 
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Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
Russia has 145 million people. How much do you want them to do?


It’s not how much I want them to do. It is how little they have shown themselves to be able to do, vs how much more they have to do if Russia’s pretense were to again find serious believers outside a core of delusional well-wishers for Russia, and how much yet more than that they still have to before they can stop pretending.

Honestly, the amount they have to do, should be feasible for a country that has been largely industrialized for almost a century, yet post Cold War Russia has never manage to organize it human and material assets to touched it, nor ever came close to touching it, nor, as show in the last 15 or so years, understand how to approach it using means better than try harder with prideful methods that have been shown to be inadequate.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
It’s not how much I want them to do. It is how little they have shown themselves to be able to do, vs how much more they have to do if Russia’s pretense were to again find serious believers outside a core of delusional well-wishers for Russia, and how much yet more than that they still have to before they can stop pretending.
"delusional". The Russians have their limitations. They are still way behind in terms of process and quality control. I am sure there will be further slippage in some projects. What do you think about the Great Leap Forward projects of the US Navy like the LCS and the Zumwalt? Or the endless string of armored vehicle projects the US Army had like the FCS? OICW? The latest comedy show is the air lifted cavalry vehicle. They selected the worst of both choices (Griffin II). The platform it uses, the British Ajax, is a disaster. Try reading about it. What about the extremely piss poor reliability of the 5th gen aircraft which even the top brass can't hide anymore?

Imagine if the US went into the Constellation frigate program, and then the European partners just pulled out because they invaded Iraq. It is what happened with Russia. The US has hard kill APS on the M1. Which they bought from Israel. The Predator was only made after they cloned Israeli drones. They had to buy the M27 from HK. If Russia could do the same thing, well, I guess they could also smooth out a lot of the hickups they have in some programs so they can focus more on others. It also helps they can just print more dollars and buy that kind of design or even product in some cases.

It is a major problem that Russia, India, and China still have not figured out a way to make tech transfer work in a way they can be satisfied about it in terms of compensation. That is one limitation they have over the West that is for sure.
 
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pmc

Major
Registered Member
some low altitude flying. i dont think these Ka-52 has the more powerful engines and reduce weight..
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
There's an ingrained belief that Russia is a great power due to the size of its land area.

But the reality today is that economic heft is based on how many people you have and how productive they are.
And Russia simply does not have the population or economy to compete against the USA, China or the European Union.
And ultimately, military power rests on an economic foundation.

I don't think Russians have reconciled themselves (and tailored their aspirations) to being a medium-sized country.
On the other hand, Russia retained most of the economic/industrial core of the former Soviet Union and Russian Empire, with the exception of Ukraine and Lithuania.
I.e. while Modern Russia is less than half the population of the 1990 Soviet Union, in terms of productive population, the ratio isn't nearly the same.

What? The recent (serious and hardly bypassable) financial and tech sanctions had only started like a month ago and no one expected them to work right away but rather a few years from now.
Isn't exactly the first case of such sanctions (actually this time they're kinda mild, and situation is nowhere near as bad) on Russia. Last time was exactly 100 yrs ago.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
According to Biden the ruble was going to be 250 to a dollar. It is now at 71 to a dollar i.e. it is worth more than before the war started.
And you don't remember the comments the now "on vacation" US sanctions czar made.

The US tried to engineer a collapse of the Russian financial system and they failed miserably. They gloated at cosmopolitan people in St. Petersburg queueing up at the few ATMs in the country where you can withdraw dollars. They paraded how people with iPhones couldn't pay in the subway as Apple Pay was blocked. Guess what. Most people in Russia use neither.

Now the US downplays expectations and claim it will work long term. Europe is still in overdrive mode and want to cut energy imports. They think Russia will collapse in the short term if they do it. Good luck destroying their own economy.


Russia has had long experiences where they open up and close down. And yes the Reds were in deep trouble. Fighting a civil war against the Whites and the combined forces of the UK, the US, and France in their own territory. The US sent troops to Arkhangelsk and the Far East.

Some people in Russia wanted to go full autarchy after the sanctions but the government is resisting it and I think they will pull through. The banking sector managed to resist the sanctions and Russia has enough capital to push through the transition period. They also have a positive balance of trade, in fact it is even more positive than it used to, since they can't import much of anything. It will take time to switch trade flows.
You are flirting with heresy, be carefull !
 
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