Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

pmc

Major
Registered Member
I am sorry, but the idea that Russia would have, "a much easier time" against the US is nonsensical. They are struggling to occupy a country with not even a fraction of the US capabilities.
they already occupied 20% or more. occupation is very manpower intensive process. US used alot of contractors and allies to deal with much smaller countries interms of area and population.
Russia sent 40K troops parked it outside city of 4million for a month. this create engagements that create targets for airpower.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Added later
Some helicopters have them. Some do not. Do you think every helicopter in NATO service has DIRCM? The Apache does not have it as standard.
Not my point. The point is that they don’t have the numbers of flares needed. DIRCM has the advantage of not needing expendable flares.
You do not remember US troops in Iraq with sand bags on their vehicles and hillbilly armor. I see
no I do. Yet even then BIG difference. Sand bags will stop spall. American troops used ballistic steel and armored glass. Wood might stop an Ak round anything bigger than that will probably turn it into shrapnel.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
if the lower level units deployed don’t get said command because they lack the radio systems then the upper level command is just talking to itself.
They would be using open channel comms for the lower level infantry units. That reduces the strategic value of intercepting the communications in the first place. You just need one radio per squad to keep the comm channel to the upper level encrypted. Higher level command officers, in the field, will likely be in vehicles most of the time and those have had digital radios with encrypted communications for longer than the dismounted infantry. So there should be better coverage than for dismounts.

The infantry hand held R-187P1 Azart radio entered service in 2017. The vehicle mounted R-168E Akveduk radios entered service in 2000. These are encrypted digital radios with frequency hopping which are jam resistant.

I agree this is not optimal, even older vehicles might be using open channel comms, but you go to war with the army you have.
And like I said even a lot of armies in NATO are still like this.

You don’t want to touch that Russia had a convoy parked on said road for weeks. Tanks and armored vehicles try to avoid them Russian command launched to late the soil in the north was bog that even tanks were not suited to. They were funneled onto roads where they slowed to LA style traffic and got picked off.
See. You do know why they gave up going offroad for the most part.

Those other armies command are slowing to refuel in an extreme abundance of caution.
Uh right. You seem to think the sanitized image you got of US combat in Iraq is what really happens in the ground. I remember reading about the Iraqis blowing up US supply columns back then in 2003. Do you know after the US government caught a lot of flak in Vietnam with independent reporters showing atrocities, the US put a major media clampdown in Desert Storm in 1991? All "embedded" reporters had to be vetted by the US government and they could only show what the government wanted to be seen. The whole idea was to push a stronger media message and use that to wash out dissenting voices. That is how CNN came to preeminence worldwide. Back in 1991 they were one of the first internationally broadcasted channels showing footage from the war with embedded reporters. I still remember some reporters of other channels tried to do independent reporting, they showed injured, and got kicked out. All the news reports you see of US embedded reporters are basically censored sources today. One of the things the US government specified was that you were not allowed to show US casualties. Some of the other reporters who tried to show civilian or enemy casualties were also kicked out.

Sorry that’s not reflective of what is seen on the ground. It’s not just the the main types T72, T80 and T90. It’s the variants to variants that are often woefully obsolete.
...
What this means is that you have units with the same line of vehicle but completely different standard of protection, fire control and even communications.
You can’t just bolt T90M parts on a T72A. It’s not just the road wheels. It’s the ERA the fire control, the vision systems.
Turkish forces have paid the price for not modernizing their vehicles and improperly supporting them to. My main point here is the Russians love Tanks. They are capable of building very impressive vehicles. Yet despite the propaganda They deployed vehicles that were reviewed in the same configuration by Brezhnev.
I would not say that. Even the T-72A pictured there is using Kontakt-1 ERA. That variant only entered service in 1988. That was not long before the Soviet Union collapsed. The T-72 has the T-72B3 mod. 2016 upgrade available to it. You can basically convert almost any T-72 variant to it. This is a deep upgrade which changes basically everything and costs less than half the price of a new tank.
The M1 tank entered service in 1980. It is a later design but also came out when Brezhnev was alive. He died in 1982.

The Russian army should have retired the T80 it used them for export.
I cannot say I agree with the T-80BVM upgrade program either. If the Russians wanted to use T-80s they should have upgraded the T-80Us not the T-80BVs. The base armor in the turret is totally different. And no amount of modern ERA will change that. I suspect it is some kind of technical problem which makes upgrading that tank model cumbersome. I personally would have just upgraded the T-72 tanks. But I guess it is some kind of jobs program for the Omsk plant. Why didn't they just convert Omsk to the T-72 is beyond me. Perhaps they thought it would take too long to retool the plant. Perhaps the plan is to switch both plants to T-14 eventually.

Held off on the Armata MBT and used the funds to bring the T72 and T90 to a modern standard.
It is what they did. They pushed out the T-72B3 mod. 2016 and T-90M upgrades.

T-14 Armata is like 6 years late. I mean just look at the tank number. Supposed to be a 2014 tank model. Only late last year did it enter mass production. The 4th Guards Tank Division you see them talk about in the later video was supposed to be the first unit to use the T-14 Armata. That is why they still have the T-80Us and were not changed to a T-72 variant. Supposed to be one of the best equipped units and have worse equipment than a second line unit because of that.

They should have reduced the red army’s size and 20 year old canned rations
They did reduce the army size. But then they increased it again after reforms were made. So you wanted them to invade Ukraine with even less troops. lol. As for the Russian rations just look at Steve1989MREInfo on Youtube. They aren't that bad. No soldier likes eating rations.

And a city that is tied via a rail and sea route through Crimea. The bulk of my statements was in the north where the Russians failed. Failure give lessons to learn successes only affirm.
I see no evidence of major supply problems elsewhere either.

Not my point. The point is that they don’t have the numbers of flares needed. DIRCM has the advantage of not needing expendable flares.
Regardless of how many you carry eventually they will run out. Especially against opponents with such large amounts of MANPADs.

no I do. Yet even then BIG difference. Sand bags will stop spall. American troops used ballistic steel and armored glass. Wood might stop an Ak round anything bigger than that will probably turn it into shrapnel.
Hah. Like I said you don't remember it at all. A lot of troops used improvised armor and the steel wasn't ballistic at all. Only later after major political grumbling did they start proving ballistic steel plates to use in the vehicles.
 
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meckhardt98

Junior Member
Registered Member
Debris from crashed MiG31BM near the border of Finland in the Leningrad Oblast; crew reportedly ejected safely.
 

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I know this is a loaded question, but has the Ukrainian war shown Russia to be somewhat of a paper tiger? They obviously have a massive nuclear arsenal which will always make any sort of invasion of the Russian mainland impossible Inspire of that, I cannot help but feel that based on what we are seeing in Ukraine, the conventional forces of Russia would fail miserably against NATO.

I just don't see how they can be portrayed as a serious threat going forward? Certainly the idea of them invading deep into Europe has shown to be complete fantasy. Outside of maybe some sort of surprise attack, Russia attempting to square off against a fully deployed NATO force seems like suicide.

What are some of your opinions on this subject? I feel like many people must be shocked by the poor performance of the Russian Armed Forces thus far.

Even the USSR invading deep into western Europe was a fearmongering political tactic full of exaggerations and nonsense.

NATO was always roughly (could be slightly less, equal, or superior to) the Soviet forces and Russia's in post USSR era.

How can one equal force push far into another equal force?

At most Russia would make small and slow progress in such a war against Europe IFF it is an overall superior military force!

Basically what I'm saying is:

If Russia > NATO => slow Russian progress into Europe
If Russia = NATO => no progress from either side
If NATO > Russia => slow NATO progress into Russia

To simplify things.

The idea that Russia or USSR back then could invade deep into Europe and do it quickly... that was all nonsense. Not unless USSR or today's Russia's conventional forces are FAR superior and more numerous to NATO's which simply isn't the case.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I agree this is not optimal, even older vehicles might be using open channel comms, but you go to war with the army you have.
And like I said even a lot of armies in NATO are still like this
A lot of NATO armies don’t exist. NATO as an organization for mutual defense allows many states to support via para medical or military police.
Uh right. You seem to think the sanitized image you got of US combat in Iraq
Blah blah blah.. no barring on the point. In unproven events that sounds more like the rambling of the former Iraqi Information minister.
I would not say that. Even the T-72A pictured there is using Kontakt-1 ERA. That variant only entered service in 1988. That was not long before the Soviet Union collapsed. The T-72 has the T-72B3 mod. 2016 upgrade available to it. You can basically convert almost any T-72 variant to it. This is a deep upgrade which changes basically everything and costs less than half the price of a new tank.
The M1 tank entered service in 1980. It is a later design but also came out when Brezhnev was alive. He died in 1982.
Out of a museum or moth balls you won’t find any M1 spec Abrams. Even a Gulf war spec M1A1 would be damn near impossible outside of a boneyard.
Us and just about all Abrams users have modernized to a digital standard either in the A2 series or A1.
I cannot say I agree with the T-80BVM upgrade program either. If the Russians wanted to use T-80s they should have upgraded the T-80Us not the T-80BVs. The base armor in the turret is totally different. And no amount of modern ERA will change that. I suspect it is some kind of technical problem which makes upgrading that tank model cumbersome. I personally would have just upgraded the T-72 tanks. But I guess it is some kind of jobs program for the Omsk plant. Why didn't they just convert Omsk to the T-72 is beyond me. Perhaps they thought it would take too long to retool the plant. Perhaps the plan is to switch both plants to T-14 eventually.
You miss my point. So I will simplify. Pick one. Russia has three active MBT with a fourth on the way. Running 4 different programs is complicated in any size of MIC and economy. Pick one. T72 and T90 have degrees of commonality. They have degrees of Synergy, But rather than new T72s they should have been building T90s and modernizing T72 until they had the numbers of T90 to send the T72 to the boneyard. If the Russians hadn’t started T90 I would have said T80. A pure T90 fleet would have made more sense to start from in Developing T14 from. This crap of having half a dozen sub classes of tank at once… it makes no sense. Streamline. One family as few variants as possible. Common logistics.
They did reduce the army size. But then they increased it again after reforms were made. So you wanted them to invade Ukraine with even less troops. lol. As for the Russian rations just look at Steve1989MREInfo on Youtube. They aren't that bad. No soldier likes eating rations.
I don’t want them invading anyone. My point is that the “Reforms” don’t seem to have done jack. Very publicly a set of rations issued to Russian troops was found to have passed expiration dates. Steve1989MRE eats such as a hobby but even he has a line he won’t cross and farther doesn’t want to see troops eating rancid food.
I am not bothering with a number of arguments here as they are basically apologist.
Regardless of how many you carry eventually they will run out. Especially against opponents with such large amounts of MANPADs
Well partially true this is a pretty poor argument. Early on it seemed like Russia was betting on a easy capitulation. That failed. They tried to employ in a means that was outside their safe zone of doctrine. That failed. Now they are down to known. Medevel siege war.

Oh PS, I used PGM was a generic term your response was weird.
Again, the Russian Air Force does not like to order massive quantities of imported equipment. And in Soviet times the weapon sensors for missiles and smart weapons used to be made in Ukraine. They haven't been since 2015-2016. You can't expect the situation to change on a dime. The order the Russians made for R-77-1 serial production is one sign they have solved that issue since.
As Russia has domestic drone and PGM types. The shortage of them isn’t it seems based on foreign. Although they have used those too. But seems again to be the Russian MIC writing cheques it can’t cash.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Blah blah blah.. no barring on the point. In unproven events that sounds more like the rambling of the former Iraqi Information minister.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Tell me about those "unproven events" then.

Out of a museum or moth balls you won’t find any M1 spec Abrams.
That is not a T-72 Ural or vanilla T-72A either. Like I said, Kontakt-1 ERA wasn't in service when Brezhnev was alive. Please remind me when the M1 got ERA. Around the time the M1A2SEP came out? And only in some models with the TUSK kit? In 2006. Like almost two decades later.

Even a Gulf war spec M1A1 would be damn near impossible outside of a boneyard.
Us and just about all Abrams users have modernized to a digital standard either in the A2 series or A1.
The M1A2 entered service in 1992. After the collapse of the Soviet Union. And the T-72 already had a 125mm smoothbore gun even in the original Ural version. The M1 only got the 120mm smoothbore with the A1.

rather than new T72s they should have been building T90s and modernizing T72 until they had the numbers of T90 to send the T72 to the boneyard.
The Russians only have like 500 operational T-90 tanks. Even if they upgraded all of them to T-90M standard, an upgrade which has actually been funded, it would not be enough. There is no new T-72 tank production. Just upgrades. Even new T-90 tank production is limited. And the US has not manufactured new tanks for yonks. They are all upgrades of old vehicles. Like I said the upgrade costs less than half the cost of a new tank. And I mean less than half the cost of a new T-90 tank. Not a T-14. A T-14 costs like 3-4x more than an upgrade. It is sort of like this: T-73B3 mod. 2016 upgrade is $1 million USD, vanilla T-90 is $2 million USD, and T-14 is $5 million USD each. Building whole new T-90M tanks from scratch costs almost as much as a T-14 tank. Around $4 million USD. Which is why the Russians are not doing it in any large numbers. The T-90 platform also has no more upgrade potential. Increasing the armor protection is night impossible, the ammo carousel has reached the limit of the size of the width of the tank, etc.

Just an example of the changes. The original T-72 had a 780hp engine, and the latest variant has a 1130hp engine. The original T-90 had a 840hp engine and the latest variant has the same 1130hp engine (V-92S2F). So as you can see it is not just the same road wheels. The latest T-72 and T-90 use the same engine. Also same 2A46M-5 gun. The Sosna-U gunner sight is also common to a lot of tank models.

Streamline. One family as few variants as possible. Common logistics.
They use a lot of common components.

Well partially true this is a pretty poor argument. Early on it seemed like Russia was betting on a easy capitulation. That failed. They tried to employ in a means that was outside their safe zone of doctrine. That failed. Now they are down to known. Medevel siege war.
I think the plan covered a lot of possible different scenarios. To be honest I expected the Russians to do a much more limited operation that they initially did. I was kind of surprised by the scope and the advance in the south and north on both directions. But on hindsight that was kind of necessary. Already we see NATO pushing more and more weapons and support, and if they hadn't got all the way to the Dnieper on such a large front it would be much harder to defend against the troops the Ukrainians have in the southwest.

Oh PS, I used PGM was a generic term your response was weird. As Russia has domestic drone and PGM types. The shortage of them isn’t it seems based on foreign. Although they have used those too. But seems again to be the Russian MIC writing cheques it can’t cash.
I never heard the Russians claim they had a lot of PGMs. They traditionally use those rather sparingly only on high value targets.
You ignore that for a long time Russia's GLONASS network did not have enough satellites in service. Only a long time after Putin was back in the power did they get the network up to full strength. While this does not mean the system was unusable, it means you get a lot less accuracy, and this makes it useless for delivering small precision munitions. At best you can use it for nukes or to help you kind of guess where you are on a map. They only got full GLONASS coverage on Russian territory back in 2010 and global coverage in late 2011. The Russians mostly used laser sensors in their PGMs. And those are much more expensive. And like I said the laser sensors used to be made in Ukraine. So the Russian Air Force avoided ordering them. They had enough issues with the military programs they had with Ukraine like the An-70 debacle.
 

Broccoli

Senior Member
I know this is a loaded question, but has the Ukrainian war shown Russia to be somewhat of a paper tiger? They obviously have a massive nuclear arsenal which will always make any sort of invasion of the Russian mainland impossible Inspire of that, I cannot help but feel that based on what we are seeing in Ukraine, the conventional forces of Russia would fail miserably against NATO.

I just don't see how they can be portrayed as a serious threat going forward? Certainly the idea of them invading deep into Europe has shown to be complete fantasy. Outside of maybe some sort of surprise attack, Russia attempting to square off against a fully deployed NATO force seems like suicide.

What are some of your opinions on this subject? I feel like many people must be shocked by the poor performance of the Russian Armed Forces thus far.

If you look Russian military and take note only their modern equipment (forget all those BMP-2's and BMD-2's etc) you'll see it's not much bigger military power than France or Germany.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Germany. How many tanks do they have?
If you are talking large militaries in Europe with broad capabilities it would be France and the UK.
Even France has like 222 MBTs. If you believe Oryx then Russia already lost more MBTs than that amount in this conflict.
Even in terms of aircraft the French have 137 Rafale. Russia has over 128 Su-35 alone.

No, Russia has basically enough hardware to fight two European NATO countries.
 
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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I am not really sure NATO exists without the US, so I am can not see the point in removing them from the equation.

My basic thought process boils down to that so far Russia has failed to achieve any real military victory, despite being on paper vastly superior to Ukraine.
On paper Ukraine had 2000 tanks, 150 aircraft (1/4 Russian), 200k soldiers (equal to Russian expeditionary forces), 1/4 Russia population, 1/8 Russia GDP.

Iraq in comparison during Desert Storm had 1/10 US population and 1/50 US GDP. They fielded 600k soldiers vs. 900k coalition. They had less than 1/5 the planes coalition did.

In terms of war goals, Russia is fighting a war of annexation while US fought a war of annihilation. The goal for Russia is to take land which will eventually be theirs and govern. Carpet bombing will not be useful here. The goal of US in Iraq was the destruction of Iraq hence why they destroyed 95% of electricity generation and even water treatment plants. They also threatened to destroy dams north of Baghdad.

So Ukraine, on paper, was always going to be much harder to crack than Iraq. In fact it should serve as a warning to the west that Iran (similar population and GDP ratio to the US as Ukraine to Russia) will be incredibly difficult to invade.
 
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