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avatar1234

New Member
Registered Member
I will say this: in 2009 russian MoD signed a contract with UAC for production of 48 Su-35 planes. Back then, the Ruble was fairly strong, at some 30-ish Rubles for a dollar. The contract was signed for the sum of 66 billion rubles. Translating to some 40-ish million of then year dollars for a plane.

In 2015 another contract for another 48-50 Su-35 was signed. Back then Ruble went down in value, and was something like 65 Rubles per dollar. 48-50 planes were signed for some 100 billion rubles. Translating to some 31 to 32 million US dollars, in then year value.

It is normal the price would come down as the production ramps up, the same thing happens with any new plane.

In 2020 another contract was signed but sadly this one included a bunch of support stuff for the whole fleet as well, besides the naked planes, so the sum is not directly comparable to previous sales.

Various foreign sales of both russian or US gear are terrible examples to use, as there's too many possible and unknown variables included. For US and Russian own sales, there is at least a decent chance that both are fly away price sales, fairly comparable to each other. Of course both require bunch of other stuff and additional sales, but at least they should be comparable.
 
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stannislas

Junior Member
Registered Member
pmc said:
Automated industry is very expensive to implement latest German and Korean plants easily can cost several billions but there is huge industrial chains behind it. i doubt high performance or 3Peak tires are cheap to manufacture without expensive plant. infact Airplane tires only French Michelin dominate.
The point i am making is that Korean plant in Russia makes equally or better equipped vehicles with bigger engines despite much lower volumes at competitive prices.
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so, you were saying the russian plant is cheap? or aeroplane plant is cheap? or there isn't huge supply chain for arospace industry? sorry I don't get your point.

pmc said:
Aerospace is most prestigious industry in Russia. well integrated under Rostec with state support. there is Putin picture from MAKS 1999 airshow. thats why following this aerospace industry is so interesting. if planes are not enough in fire fighting. increase the capacity of chopper. its all based on practical experience.
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So does it in China/US and europe, aerospace is very prestigious industry in these ranges as well, but that does not change anything... it won't make aerospace industry more "streamlined and efficient".

in fact when ford have their first steamline a centry ago, car industy is not as prestigious as it is today... so I doubt it has nothing to do with the efficiency
 
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pmc

Major
Registered Member
stannislas said:
so, you were saying the russian plant is cheap? or aeroplane plant is cheap? or there isn't huge supply chain for arospace industry? sorry I don't get your point.
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Hyundai prices of its vehicles manufactured in Russia either equal or lower despite much lower volumes relative to China / US. what does it tell you about efficiency of Russia auto manufacturing?. The same is with VW Tiguan manufactured in Russia.
stannislas said:
So does it in China/US and europe, aerospace is very prestigious industry in these ranges as well, but that does not change anything... it won't make aerospace industry more "streamlined and efficient".
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Aerospace is not prestigious industry in China / US. even Boeing parts and engines are half made in Europe. There is no attempt being made in making industry independent from Europe. that give dominance to European supply chains and made Airbus now dominate in 80% of market.
Sukhoi and Irkut are making first modern attempts that will make industry Independent from Europe. older variants of Russian planes already independent of Europe.

stannislas said:
in fact when ford have their first steamline a centry ago, car industy is not as prestigious as it is today... so I doubt it has nothing to do with the efficiency
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i am saying Auto industry is not at same level of stream lining in Russia as Rostec managed Aerospace. so dont expect cost efficiency in Russian auto industry relative to other countries with larger volume of sales but still its very competitive price wise when you look at cold weather features. Rostec products should do much better in cost efficiency as there is nothing comparable in rest of the world.
 
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stannislas

Junior Member
Registered Member
pmc said:
Hyundai prices of its vehicles manufactured in Russia either equal or lower despite much lower volumes relative to China / US. what does it tell you about efficiency of Russia auto manufacturing?. The same is with VW Tiguan manufactured in Russia.
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nothing, back in 20 years ago cars sold in china are cheap as well... if Hyundai think lower the price can get them more profit, they will do it, it has nothing to do with the russian auto manufacture efficiency. This is very simple pricing strategy...
pmc said:
Aerospace is not prestigious industry in China / US. even Boeing parts and engines are half made in Europe. There is no attempt being made in making industry independent from Europe. that give dominance to European supply chains and made Airbus now dominate in 80% of market.
Sukhoi and Irkut are making first modern attempts that will make industry Independent from Europe. older variants of Russian planes already independent of Europe.
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ok, let's see, not fully made in US means not prestigious industry...ok... nice logic, if there is any... I guess that means silicon vally is pretty much all sunset by now, we could kiss goodbye to iphone, google and windows tomorrow then?

again, check on which country you are refering too, China... so glad to know you are able to provide china some foreign subcontractor to outsource their aerospace industry...
pmc said:
i am saying Auto industry is not at same level of stream lining in Russia as Rostec managed Aerospace. so dont expect cost efficiency in Russian auto industry relative to other countries with larger volume of sales but still its very competitive price wise when you look at cold weather features. Rostec products should do much better in cost efficiency as there is nothing comparable in rest of the world.
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ok, again, funny logic here,

assuming russian Aerospace effiency > russian Auto industry effiency,
also russian Auto industry effiency < rest of world Auto industry effiency

so you conclusion is: russian Aerospace effiency > rest of world Aerospace effiency

really? uhhh???
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Nobaron said:
Davis axe is losing his mind over checkmate
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This is his 5th article probably in 3 days :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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lol the guys over at F-16 forum make fun of Axe and so he should be made fun of. The man's an absolute idiot. However this is no reflection on the Sukhoi aircraft. It's too difficult to see what it can and can't fill. 5th gen is as much about electronics and networking as it is about performance and stealth enhancement.

We can see that is will have F119 class engine (something more than AL-41/117 but less than Izd.30 apparently) and is stealth shaped, small, correct speculated (eye ball) design for stealth and likely one of the best VLO designs owing to smaller size, fewer surfaces, very hidden nozzle. Even the IRST could be fine if internally designed to be stealthy or the surface reflect RF. Spherical is stealthy but could be optimised further with minimal payoff which is why Chinese and American designers have implemented faceted ones. Russians can use the concept like the Chinese have with the American concept, but since it's easily understood by the engineers on these projects, the only reason to not would be one of cost, complexity, and time required to.

Fighter has three bays and moderately sized to be useful enough. Should be a popular export option for shorter range and lighter weight 5th gen. It would make Russia a lot of money in supplying parts, maintenance, and weapons for.

It is proposed to undergo first test flight in 2023 and finalise around 2025 with orders being filled roughly in 2030s if manufacturing lines are set up quickly.
 
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