"facepalm", and where oh where on earth is it stated that a Su-57 without RAM (or with RAM seeing as you have a propensity to shift the goal posts here) and shittier avionics is going to be able to sneak up on a F-35/F-22 that is on full alert ? Oh wait there isn't, this is getting dogmatic.
I'm saying that it's without RAM and that as GaN becomes deployed, that the RAM will be installed or upgraded. The deal isn't whether it sneaks up to the F-35 or F-22, the deal is whether it can close to WVR and change the game to a dogfight. As I've mentioned before, jamming can tremendously decrease the detection range of stealth stealth aircraft (it's roughly every negative 10 dBsm results in 90% reduction in functional range). The other thing is that stealth technology, whether shaping or RAM, is a lot more effective vs Ku-band and above seekers on radar-guided missiles than vs low-band AEW&C radars or medium-band fighter radars. The result could be that missiles launched at the Su-57 could fail to achieve independent tracking except at short ranges.
Yeah right, and I suppose the Su-57 is going to be dumped right into China's lap without the appropriate support packages and logistics. A 5th gen fighter that has a demanding upkeep being tossed around like nothing ?Please, lets get real here.
And as much as you would like to believe, metamaterials are not just simply painted on a fighter like one might do any other paint. And it still does not explain way the magical fantasy cost reduction claimed.
Except that we have pictures of metamaterials being jammed onto J-10s. The retrofit isn't trivial, but neither is it impossible. As for support package costs, the Su-35 costs something like 35-50mn a piece. China paid $100mn a piece for the support package. A purchase of Su-57s is likely to be comparably expensive in terms of support package, but guess what? The J-20 also needs a support package.
Oh dear god........... refer to my above posts. There is currently no credible evidence whatsoever, non, zero, niche, nadda. That the Su-57 could be made as cheaply as what Russia claim and remain a relatively combat capable fighter. And let us revisit that word "typically", the F-35 current estimates cost 85-110 million USD per unit and that is with 400 plus units in existence already, the J-20 cost an estimated 110 million usd per unit and with only less then 30 units in existence, oh dear oh dear the numbers seem quite telling . So this proves, with finality, that a full production mode J-20 is NOT going to cost anymore than a F-35 or F-22
It's unclear as to whether the J-20 cost is stated for the full-rate production or the LRIP-equivalents. And as I've stated before, the RMB is very undervalued compared to the USD on a PPP basis; it may reflect the cheaper cost of labor in China, but sooner or later it'll appreciate; China is slowly becoming an export power. When that comes, expect 5:1 USd or 4:1 USD instead of the current ~7:1.
If it can be produced like sardines ,it is going to get gobbled up like sardines. That is the fact of life, and please no "quantity as a quality of its own" BS here. Because as I have stated before, the Su-57 must at least have some capabilities for it to be worth a damn, and it is not going to get that if is going to be sold at that kind of pittance.
To be fair, if you can answer this question with finality I can let this issue rest : How on earth can a Su-57 that is going to be built to a tighter tolerance, equipped with better avionics and ECMs going to cost less then a Su-35S that is built to a lesser tolerance, poorer avionics and ECMs and no stealth shaping and most importantly, have more than a 100 units in service to drive the production costs down already ? That is the main problem that the article is conveniently ignoring.
Desperation. The Su-35S are already being exported, and the cost cited for the China deal is including support costs.
Ugh, again with this economical nonsense. Just because a currency depreciates in value means a country can sell something more cheaply and at higher a profit. If that be the case then Japan with the yen did be swimming in money already. I don't get it where people think that if a currency drops in value it is going to go swimmingly for everyone in that country in question but I can tell you now that there is such a thing as a global economy and inflation rates.
Inflation is not a uniformly-applied figure, i.e, if the inflation figure is 3.5% it doesn't mean that my rice is all of a sudden going to be 3.5% more expensive. Indicators of inflation are based on a basket of goods purchased and some factors can be less expensive. To put it another way, the Russian GDP per capita in PPP (inflation adjusted) terms has been roughly constant since the Ukraine crisis. On the other hand, in nominal terms, the Russian GDP per capita has dropped about 25%, implying that exchange rate moves have been greater than inflation. In the long-run, inflation should push prices to effectively the same as before the exchange rate bomb, but that's in the long-run. In the short-run, the Su-57 is a bargain.
Yeap, was expecting the race card to be raised sooner or later. To answer the question, no I am not a Russian but it does not adduce or deduce anything from my posts. Second off, I have never claim that the J-20 is the end all be all fighter. What I am contending to is the extremely fanciful notion that the Su-57 can be sold at such a low price and still remain a viable fighter of its class.
If the J-20 can be consider "good enough" for WVR, then there will be no need to procure the Su-57 solely for the prospect of close range dogfighting, considering that the F-22 and F-35 possess roughly the same close fighting qualities, the gap can be compensated with better off bore missiles, a stronger engine (if the J-20 ever gets one) and better use of aerial tactics.
It's more the nationalist card. I've been reading about the Imperial Japanese Army, and the shocking thing about it is that the IJA was basically similar to cats. That is to say, to a mouse it's an eldritch monstrosity that hunts it mercilessly. To humans, it's a cute and adorable companion animal. The IJA, basically, was well-suited to beating up GMD forces or hitting second-tier colonial troops in the Far East and Southeast Asian region. When confronted with a serious and modern army, such as that of the Soviet Union or United States, well, it got smashed, not merely on a quantitative level, but also a qualitative level. For instance, the 6.5mm Arisaka during the Second Sino-Japanese War was considered underpowered, akin to early 5.8mm ammunition in Chinese service, and Japanese artillery was so bad that even GMD artillery imported by Germany could outrange and outshoot it.
Yet the IJA, along with modern Japanese nationalists, went on / go on endlessly about the superiority, bravery, and power of the Imperial Japanese Army. What they can't admit is when their own country is bad, and that their entire colonial adventure was a terrible idea because they were a semi-modernized country around the time of the Second Sino-Japanese War that ended up going to war with the Soviet Union and the United States, both of which had technological and industrial advantages, in the latter, to obscene levels.
In the Japanese case, part of the problem was that they were in a weak and losing position, and had to take risks to be strategically viable. They had to believe in their own strengths, instead of making sincere and effective self-criticisms (one of the things Chinese nationalists get right is that they point out that the PLA tends to emphasize its weakness and flaws). In the Chinese case, the Chinese aren't in a losing position. While economic growth has slowed down, technological growth is speeding up, and there's no reason to hew to nationalist positions because the alternative is to admit defeat.
The PLA can make a rational decision as to whether the Su-57 meets Chinese needs, mainly based on the price. Buying the Su-57 will, of course, get hewing and hemming from Western observers, but what's the point of being so sensitive to foreign criticism?
