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thunderchief

Senior Member
Oh, when you are wanting to keep those arctic sea lanes open all year, through the winter, size is most certainly an issue.

The 20,000 ton class ice breakers typically can break through 4-5 ft of ice. The monsters the Russians are building can break through 10 ft of ice. That's the difference it makes.

Numbers also clearly play a role because you have to have enough to account for maintenance, breakdowns/damage, etc. and still keep the sea lanes up north open if that is your intent. In that case, clearly one or two will not suffice. But six or seven will.

I was just mentioning that this new Russian LK-60 will be the world's largest icebreaker and comparing it to the largest US Coast Guard icebreaker, the Healy, for reference.

Well , you are probably right about thickness of ice , although 4-5 ft seems enough for Arctic summer and Northwest Passage (north side of North America) . On the other hand , Russians plan to keep open Northern route as long as it possible during the year , therefore they are building very large icebreakers .
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
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Russian_Air_Force_Tupolev_Tu-22M-3_Beltyukov-1.jpg


The Aviationist said:
A Swedish Armed Forces officer reported that Russian bombers practiced bombing runs to Sweden, Baltics states and Poland last week.

The latest episode occurred on the morning of Oct. 28, when three escort planes and two Russian bombers flew toward Swedish territory. The “package” was detected on the radar over the Gulf of Finland and for one hour they seemingly carried out attack runs against Poland, the Baltics – and the southern tip of Öland in Sweden.

“I think the purpose was to practice various types of attacks as well as highlight the Russian presence in the southern Baltic,” Anders Persson, acting flight tactical commander on the Swedish Armed Forces said in an interview with SVT.se.

“We are now seeing an increased activity of Russian strategic bombers in the area. Of course we have to follow developments and see where they’re going and what they are doing,” Persson said.

Two Gripen fighter jet were scrambled to keep a close eye on the Russian planes.

Even though Sweden is used to such activity in the Baltic Sea area, the aggressive posture of the Russians makes the drills a bit annoying for the Swedish.

“The difference is that when we practice, we do it together with a nation, we do not practice on any target in any country without the country being involved in the exercise. The Russian behavior is far more aggressive in their exercises,” Anders Persson, said.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Typical behaviour from Russian bomber deployments, they like to visit Scotland also they come down from the North hugging the Norway coast, usually they are shadowed by Norwegian F16s and then info is passed onto to the RAF who send in the Typhoons to take over the escort and shadow duties as they approach British air space, they are no threat just a annoyance

Shame a Type 45 DDG was not in the area when they arrived, it is said that if a Type 45 sat between the Shetland Islands and the Norwegian coast it could cover the entire North Sea area, it could take out a entire formation of bombers if need be
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Typical behaviour from Russian bomber deployments, they like to visit Scotland also they come down from the North hugging the Norway coast, usually they are shadowed by Norwegian F16s and then info is passed onto to the RAF who send in the Typhoons to take over the escort and shadow duties as they approach British air space, they are no threat just a annoyance

Shame a Type 45 DDG was not in the area when they arrived, it is said that if a Type 45 sat between the Shetland Islands and the Norwegian coast it could cover the entire North Sea area, it could take out a entire formation of bombers if need be

Interesting, I didn't know the Russian do this. How often do they shadow the NATO coast?
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
“The difference is that when we practice, we do it together with a nation, we do not practice on any target in any country without the country being involved in the exercise. The Russian behavior is far more aggressive in their exercises,” Anders Persson, said.

Well , that would be a bit of exaggeration ;) . Sweden is not (yet) part of the NATO , but I'm sure they practice various defensive and offensive scenarios against Russia , alone and with other countries . Nothing new under the sun and I think that there is no real threat of conflict , although some Western countries miss good old 1990's when Russia was weak and powerless .
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The Swedish may not be but the Poles are NATO members. I wonder sometimes if the cold war ever really needed for the Russians.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
A thought occurred to me.

The Russians have a sizable fleet in the Med just now. It would be neat to see their nuclear cruiser, conventional cruiser, and a couple of their DDGs join in the escort of the new Indian carrier, Virkamaditya, across the med as she heads for India.

It would also be neat if the USS George H.W. Bush and her group met the Vikramaditya and sailed across the med with here as well, in a show of international solidarity.

What a site all of that would be.
 

kroko

Senior Member
I don't think the Lazarez back in service one day, because later Russian Navy get new "big" warships, if use 2 Kirov, logic one with NSF and other PACF.

Perhabs you are right. According to this article only admiral nakimov will be restored, the other two scraped or turned into permanent rustbuckets.

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And its not hard to see why. They are very deteriorated. Look at these photos.

admiral lazarev
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admiral ushakov
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Perhabs you are right. According to this article only admiral nakimov will be restored, the other two scraped or turned into permanent rustbuckets.

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And its not hard to see why. They are very deteriorated. Look at these photos.

admiral lazarev
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admiral ushakov
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The deterioration as shown in those pics is actually not too bad. All of that that you see is surface stuff that could easily be sanded or ground off, re-primed/treated, repainted and then maintained.


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However, the former Kirov, the current Admiral Ushakov, had a nuclear accident and suffered significant damage years ago that was never repaired and apparently in those spaces there is significant structural damage and an ever worsening issue.

The Peter the Great, which has been partially modernized and well maintained, and the Nakimov which is in refit now, will both definitely serve on. Whether the Lazarev will be refit or not is still up for discussion. If the Russians find the money, they probably will. If they do not get more funding (and a lot of it) they will not be able to and she will continue to deteriorate and ultimately be scrapped.
 
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