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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
if I understood the blog in Spanish
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this would be the current Russian submarine force in the Far East:
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Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Russia recently announced plans to restart production of the Tupolev Tu-160 “Blackjack” heavy strategic bombers, alongside the manufacturing of the country’s new bomber, called PAK DA. But all these declarations by Russian officials are deemed unfeasible by many experts, who say the country does not have enough qualified personnel and funding necessary to support the claims, according to a
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by IHS Jane's Defence Weekly on Friday.

The skepticism follows the country’s recent claim that it would buy at least
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when the aircraft's production is renewed. Russia also stated that the revival of the Tu-160 production would not interfere with the production of the PAK DA aircraft, scheduled to make its first flight in 2019.

“The people issuing these orders still believe we are living in Soviet times, where you simply make proclamations and an entire constellation of design bureaus and production plants charge forward and no one is estimating the money required or - even worse - calculating anything like the opportunity cost created,” a Moscow-based analyst of the Russian defense sector told IHS Jane's Defence Weekly.

The lack of qualified workforce is considered to be one of the significant weaknesses in the Russian defense sector, which currently has only a small fraction of skilled personnel, compared to its former, Soviet-era size. The number of Russia’s current qualified workforce to complete the Tu-160 production is estimated to be less than 10 percent of the country’s apex in the 1980s, IHS Jane's Defence Weekly reported.

However, the Kremlin is apparently not in sync with the experts’ views. Yuri Borisov, the Russian deputy minister of defense, said last week that the new Tu-160 bomber would be a redesigned aircraft, which will go into production in 2023. According to Borisov, the aircraft’s onboard systems would be several generations beyond the original Tu-160.

“In essence, it will be a new plane, dubbed Tu-160M2. It will have new technical specifications, new capabilities,” Russia’s Sputnik
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Borisov as saying. “According to the current schedule, this will happen sometime after 2023.”

Russia is also planning to equip 130 Mikoyan MiG-31 interceptors with the MiG-31BM configuration, which includes the installation of a new avionics suite, modernized crew stations with enhanced displays and a new onboard radar set.

In addition, Colonel General Viktor Bondarev, the chief of staff of the Russian Air Force, has reportedly called for large numbers of warplanes, including Sukhoi Su-30MK, Su-35 and Su-34 fighter-bombers.
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thunderchief

thunderchief

Senior Member
TerraN_EmpirE said:
Hold up Hold up. It's not Revolutionary, T14 is just the First Tank to take it to production from start of the vehicle.
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Prototypes and concepts really don't count here . Soviet Union had completely unmanned tanks even before WW2, so what ;)
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TerraN_EmpirE said:
yet it should be noted that much of the basis for the Unmanned turret system is in VT-4 it's just taking it to that next level. also of note VT-4 vs T14 are more or less equals firepower, the Chinese might have a slight edge in fact as there guns tend to be longer. but at there base both are packing a 125mm smooth bore mated to a autoloader with a 12.7mm MG and a coaxial 7.62x54mm MG.
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VT-4 has conventional turret and gun is most likely local version of 2A46 (barrel length 48 calibers ) . Armata has new 2A82 gun ( barrel length probably 52 , I'm not sure
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) and higher muzzle velocity . Also , Armata could get new 152 mm gun , while there is simply no room in VT-4 for that . Therefore, advantage goes to Armata .

TerraN_EmpirE said:
yet at the cost of Situational awareness. that's the down side of unmanned turrets. by moving the crew into the armored capsule you remove them from the world around them.
apt but in all likelihood VT-4 is just 2-3 years from fielding well Armata is not likely to hit the field till after 2020
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Not really . In modern times commander could rarely afford luxury to stand in unbuttoned turret and search for enemy . And when buttoned he relies on optical instruments , therefore no advantage to be in the turret .
Also , Russian army plans to introduce hundreds of T-14s starting from this year until 2020 . Would they actually do that is questionable , but project is slightly ahead then MBT-3000 with just few examples .
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
thunderchief said:
Prototypes and concepts really don't count here . Soviet Union had completely unmanned tanks even before WW2, so what ;)
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Your exact words were
T-14 is as yet unfinished, but it is a revolutionary concept of a tank with unmanned turret.
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Prototypes and concepts.
the Tanks I pointed to are Prototypes and Concepts which was your own word. I was just proving that It was a established Evolutionary concept not a revolutionary one.The key factor being that Armada is the First to take it to some level of production even if it's small batch.
VT-4 has conventional turret and gun is most likely local version of 2A46 (barrel length 48 calibers ) . Armata has new 2A82 gun ( barrel length probably 52 , I'm not sure
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) and higher muzzle velocity . Also , Armata could get new 152 mm gun , while there is simply no room in VT-4 for that . Therefore, advantage goes to Armata .
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Could get is unconfirmed unless the larger cannon is installed. T14 and Vt4 are more or less equal in fire power. both are still based around the 125mm.
now I was not aware the Russians had lengthened the gun to 52 calibres this does change things but not by much VT4's main gun is not a direct clone of the Russian but seems to be the same gun as seen on the PLA's Type 99 tank which is the ZPT98 with a given length of between 50 and 51.1 Calibres.Both guns use ATGM fired form there main guns and likely a very similar mix of rounds
Not really . In modern times commander could rarely afford luxury to stand in unbuttoned turret and search for enemy . And when buttoned he relies on optical instruments , therefore no advantage to be in the turret .
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Not every one believes that otherwise more tanks would be sporting such turrets. the Prime driver to the tech is Asymmetric engagements Traditionally Tank commanders in Force on Force function as a spotter using optics for targeting in known battle but when not they use there Mk1 eye balls and there height as well as systems to navigate spot targets and when needed assist in defense of the Tank. Most of this can now be traded off but at the cost of complexity, power demands and price. systems like the Distributed optics system can take up the spotting tasks but only to a degree. The steps needed to move it to that next level are some form of Augmented reality.
Also , Russian army plans to introduce hundreds of T-14s starting from this year until 2020 . Would they actually do that is questionable , but project is slightly ahead then MBT-3000 with just few examples .
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as proven on the Parade ground the tank is untested with untrained crews, other then the batch seen in Moscow I doubt they will be ready for field deployments. VT4 is a export tank using tech from the T99 tank. it's like arguing that Armada is more prepared for export then a T90
 
thunderchief

thunderchief

Senior Member
TerraN_EmpirE said:
Your exact words were

Prototypes and concepts. I was just proving that It was a established Evolutionary concept not a revolutionary one.
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Ok, my mistake . T-14 is as yet unfinished , but it is no longer just a paper concept , and you could not call it a prototype either because we have several units already (7 or more on parade here
) . As far as we know, some form of initial serial production possibly started already .


TerraN_EmpirE said:
Could get is unconfirmed unless the larger cannon is installed. T14 and Vt4 are more or less equal in fire power. both are still based around the 125mm.
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No, they are not . Armata has brand new gun . Caliber is the same, but would you say that Sherman with 75mm cannon and Panther with 75 mm cannon have more or less equal firepower ?


TerraN_EmpirE said:
now I was not aware the Russians had lengthened the gun to 52 calibres this does change things but not by much VT4's main gun is not a direct clone of the Russian but seems to be the same gun as seen on the PLA's Type 99 tank which is the ZPT98 with a given length of between 50 and 51.1
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Type 99 has copy of 2A46, I don't know why they say it's 51 caliber when it is not . Btw, Chinese gun supposed to have 1780 m/s muzzle velocity for AP sabot rounds , while T-90 with its version of 2A46 has 1825 m/s
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Armata supposedly beats T-90 by 10-15 % in muzzle velocity

TerraN_EmpirE said:
Calibres.Both guns use ATGM fired form there main guns and likely a very similar mix of rounds
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ATGM are rarely used in tank-to-tank combat . Anyway , Russians lead in this field also .

TerraN_EmpirE said:
Not every one believes that otherwise more tanks would be sporting such turrets. the Prime driver to the tech is Asymmetric engagements Traditionally Tank commanders in Force on Force function as a spotter using optics for targeting in known battle but when not they use there Mk1 eye balls and there height as well as systems to navigate spot targets and when needed assist in defense of the Tank. Most of this can now be traded off but at the cost of complexity, power demands and price. systems like the Distributed optics system can take up the spotting tasks but only to a degree. The steps needed to move it to that next level are some form of Augmented reality.
as proven on the Parade ground the tank is untested with untrained crews, other then the batch seen in Moscow I doubt they will be ready for field deployments. VT4 is a export tank using tech from the T99 tank. it's like arguing that Armada is more prepared for export then a T90
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West didn't design any new tank since 80's . In that time , technology didn't allow unmanned turrets .

Commander standing and observing from turret is an old concept , increasingly risky exactly against asymmetric threats armed with snipers and ATGMs . In modern times, tanks go to battle buttoned up . And when you do that, it doesn't really matter where is exactly commander located in the tank - he will use distributed optics anyway .

As for VT-4 being just upgraded Type 99, well make up your mind :D Either it is something new, or it is not . If it is not, then there is no point of comparing it with T-14, it is by default inferior .
 
Miragedriver

Miragedriver

Brigadier
MOSCOW, June 8 - RIA Novosti. Nearly 4 billion rubles to the federal budget received from the sale of property released
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of the auction, most of which was scrap metal from decommissioned equipment, said Monday the director of the Department of Property Relations of the Ministry of Defense Dmitry Kurakin.

Link:
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Back to bottling my Grenache
 
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