Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Are kamikaze drones losing relevance? What the newest Pantsir-SM is capable of​

As for the new wheeled modification "Pantsir-SM" for the anti-aircraft missile forces of the Russian Aerospace Forces, as well as the tracked modification "Pantsir-SM-SV", the preparation of the first production samples of which was announced the day before by a competent source in the Tula Design Bureau, the radar component of these vehicles will be primarily represented by promising radar detectors RLM SOC based on active phased array antennas (APAA) with gallium arsenide microwave transistors, as well as promising 1PC3 guidance radars based on pass-through AFARs (instead of the previously used 1RS2-1E “Helmet” based on passive phased arrays ).

Both radar systems have a significantly higher level of noise immunity, higher energy potential, as well as more advanced algorithms for processing primary radar information. These features provided the updated SOC RLM with the ability to detect targets with an effective reflective surface (ERP) of 3 square meters. m at a distance of about 80 km, with an image intensifier of 0.1 sq. m (corresponding to projectiles of the HIMARS system) - about 30 km and with a reflective surface of 0.02 sq. m (corresponding to Storm Shadow missiles) - about 15 km. Let us recall that the radar systems of the standard Pantsir-S1 have all the above parameters approximately 2 times lower than those of the newest versions of the air defense missile system. This means that the range of acquisition of these targets for precise auto tracking and the start of interception increases exactly 2 times, which helps to increase the fire performance of the complex from 12 to 16 targets intercepted per minute.

Another key technical advantage of the Pantsirei-SM and Pantsirei-SM-SV is the integration of higher-speed and long-range versions of the 57E6 missile interceptor into the ammunition load of the complexes. The new interceptors retained the same dual-caliber configuration, but received a more powerful 1st booster stage with a high-pulse solid propellant charge, which provides the 2nd combat stage of the anti-missile missile with a flight speed of up to 1800 m/s and a range of up to 40 km. At the same time, the ability to intercept targets maneuvering with overloads of up to 10 - 15 units can be realized at a distance of 27 - 30 km, where the flight speed and kinetic energy of the second stage of the improved 57E6 missile defense system allows it to maneuver with overloads of up to 30 units. The presence of these missiles also helps to increase the fire performance of the Pantsir-SM and Pantsir-SM-SV air defense missile systems in comparison with the Pantsir-S1. What is equally important, the new high-speed anti-aircraft guided missile is capable of intercepting targets on catch-up courses that are moving away at speeds of up to 2.5 - 3 M at a distance of 20 - 25 km, which is not possible with the standard version of the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile system.

The next advantage of the Pantsir-SM and Pantsir-SM-SV air defense missile systems is the ability to integrate quad transport-launch modules with small-sized, highly maneuverable 19YA6 missile interceptors, designed to work against small-sized optical-electronic reconnaissance copters and drones, into standard transport and launch containers -kamikaze Switchblade-600, 127-mm unguided Zuni PC, as well as Brimstone multi-purpose tactical missiles. The resource intensity of the production of these missiles is several times less than that of long-range versions of the 57E6 missiles, and therefore the priority of their use against drones and multi-purpose tactical missiles (not to mention some types of unguided rockets) is obvious. And of course, we should not forget about the ability of the latest Pantsir-SM/-SV air defense missile systems to intercept 155-mm M982 Block IA2 Excalibur guided missiles, which was confirmed by a video recording that was distributed a few days earlier by a number of specialized TG channels.

Thus, the “Pantsir-S1”, which was previously a highly mobile short-range air defense missile system (providing object-based missile defense), instantly reached the level of the “Pantsir-SM/-SV” medium-range air defense missile system, providing area-based air defense of not only individual critical objects and “ dead zones" of the S-400 and Buk-M3 air defense systems, but also large settlements with an area of up to 250 - 400 sq. km.

Click to expand...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Tula KBP has begun the final stage of development of the Pantsir-SM-SV air defense missile system

The Tula KBP has begun the final stage of development of the modernized military air defense missile system "Pantsir-SM-SV". This was reported by the Russian Weapons Telegram channel.
In terms of the combat module placed on a tracked chassis in general and the radar architecture in particular, the new complex is completely unified with the modernized Pantsir-SM air defense system.
The complex received a more noise-resistant and high-energy radar detector for targets with an image intensifier of 3 sq. m at a distance of up to 80 km and with an image intensifier of 0.07 sq. m at a distance of 27 - 30 km.
The BC integrates a new high-speed missile defense system with a higher-pulse booster stage fuel, which increases the speed of the combat stage after the first solid propellant burns out to 1700 - 1800 m/s.
Thus, the fire performance of one combat vehicle can reach 16 targets intercepted per minute, provided that the ammo capacity of one vehicle is expanded. The maximum speed of the target hit by the new military air defense missile system reaches 2000 m/s, the range of intercepted targets is up to 40 km.
The complex can also be equipped with cylindrical transport and launch modules of the 19Ya6 missile defense system to intercept drones and Brimstone-2 missiles.

Click to expand...

gelgoog said:

There were proposals from Russian defense companies to make glide kits for gravity bombs for quite some time. The Syrian experience probably did not help since the insurgents there basically had no proper SAM systems. Only after several years did MANPADS show up. But no long range SAM systems. And MANPADS can just be countered by bombing at altitude. Those MANPADS typically can at most reach 5 km altitude. So just fly higher. Which is why the Russians then started adding systems like SVP-24 Gefest to make bombing more accurate at altitude with gravity bombs. Which was much cheaper per bomb dropped than glide kits. Well this is not the case when against someone with the Buk or S-300.

Like you said, the Russians only started modernization properly after the Russo-Georgian War. Unfortunately they seem to have forgotten the lessons of that war after going into Syria. Because in Georgia they already faced an enemy which had its Soviet weapons upgraded similarly to what was done in Ukraine. The Georgians had Buk SAM systems upgraded by Ukraine, and they had T-72SIM1 tanks upgraded with US and Israeli electronics. Including thermal sensors, digital radios, etc.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Maybe because Russia still managed to win handily despite not upgrading its army significantly, with a non-professional army, they probably underestimated the degree of difficulty in Ukraine. Even though they did lose a Tu-22M3 there in Georgia. But I don't know. Maybe they did expect this. Which is why they still refrain from engaging some of their forces in case of further escalation.


These US guys haven't even had the possibility to use the real thing and are speculating. It has issues like any new weapon system which will get fixed with time with further testing. The AK-47 wasn't perfect when it came out either. They decided to make it with stamping, which proved to be weak, and had to switch to a milled receiver.

A lot of people fail to understand the huge breakthrough that Kalashnikov group made with the AK-12. After the initial program proved to be a failure they had to redesign the weapon and resubmit it. They basically decided to start afresh with a design based on an AK-100. Except this time the weapon was basically converted to digital design. It was made with modern tools and methods. This means they can iterate on the design a lot more quickly and make changes to it. They changed a lot of things on it afterwards. To meet the specifications for Ratnik, even if it was just on paper, they added Picatinny rails and a two round burst mode to the rifle. They also changed the barrel. The new barrel is supposed to be way more precisely made. The whole gun is supposed to be made way more accurately because of using modern tools.

Kalashnikov group right now is one of the major makers of advanced machine tools in Russia. For example they make 5-axis CNC machines.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Of course these design methods are being applied to a whole plethora of weapon systems as well. You are already seeing sniper rifles and carbines which likely were made with the same method. Just think about it. Kalashnikov group haven't made such major changes to the small weapons they have sold for like two decades.

They not only have the AK-12 in serial production, but also the Chukavin sniper rifle. And they are also working on the AM-17 compact assault rifle.

Also, you have to remember that the Russians approved two guns for Ratnik-2. The AK-12 and the AEK-971. The special troops are supposed to get the more complex AEK-971. But the regular army gets the cheaper AK-12.

Click to expand...

gelgoog said:

Right. Like I said before the Russians are adding smaller missiles to their short range systems to hit drones.

View attachment 123508

Look at the upper left container of that Pantsir-SM system. Those are the new small missiles. The extra reach of the new large missiles also helps since more modern latest combat drones like ones the Turks will soon put into service i.e. the TB-3 will be able to launch air to surface missiles which can outrange the older SAM missiles in the Pantsir. So the new long range missiles allow the Russians to engage those kinds of drones without using more expensive systems like the Buk-M3.

Click to expand...

TK3600 said:

What about guns. Are guns useful for drones on pantsir?

Click to expand...

BoraTas said:

That would depend on the drone. They would be useful for point-defense against the likes of Shahed, Lancet, etc. They would also be useful against small bomb dropping FPVs and even observation FPVs if the operator makes a mistake. They would be useless against the likes of the TB-2 and TB-3 though. Those fly high and they can drop stand-off munitions. The munitions could be engaged ofc but not the drone itself. The drone itself would require a missile.

Click to expand...

TK3600 said:

My question is regarding addition of small missile. It seems it is prefered over gun.

Click to expand...

gelgoog said:

Right. Like I said before the Russians are adding smaller missiles to their short range systems to hit drones.

View attachment 123508

Look at the upper left container of that Pantsir-SM system. Those are the new small missiles. The extra reach of the new large missiles also helps since more modern latest combat drones like ones the Turks will soon put into service i.e. the TB-3 will be able to launch air to surface missiles which can outrange the older SAM missiles in the Pantsir. So the new long range missiles allow the Russians to engage those kinds of drones without using more expensive systems like the Buk-M3.

Click to expand...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

An entire class of drones has begun to raise doubts​

Experts argued about the role of heavy drones in the Northwestern Military District zone

2023 was marked by an unprecedented rise in unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), but one of the varieties of these devices is now being heavily criticized by experts. Doubts arose that devices of this class could be useful on the battlefield at all. What UAVs are we talking about and how justified is this criticism?​

From 2024, the national project “Unmanned Aircraft Systems” will be fully operational in Russia.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

the government last summer . According to the document, over the next six years, a new branch of the economy related to the creation and use of drones should appear in the country.
Earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin, at an extended meeting of the Ministry of Defense,

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

the need to increase the production of UAVs. “We need to seriously increase the production and supply of high-precision projectiles and various types of drones. I know that changes are happening, they are happening quite quickly, I will say more about this, but we still need to work on it, we need to consolidate this trend,” the Kremlin

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

quotes the head of state .
“It is important to continue to increase the supply of the most popular models, as I have already said, including the formation of a serial line of unmanned aerial vehicles - from heavy strike and ultra-small vehicles,” the president said. The Russian leader also noted the need to involve high-tech businesses and engineering design companies in the development and production of UAVs.

Larger vehicles, for example, "Orlan", are capable of carrying a serious combat load - up to 3 kg. "Orlan" reaches a speed of 70–150 km/h and can stay in the air for up to ten hours. However, the most famous within the framework of the special operation were the Lancets, which Western countries had already elevated to the rank of “the best Russian weapon” and were recognized as a big problem for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Some analysts point to the loss of relevance of these devices within the framework of the Northern Military District. But others are confident in the growing relevance of heavy-duty drones. And despite the disagreements, experts agree on one thing - it is absolutely impossible to abandon the production of heavy drones, especially considering potential military conflicts in which Russia’s participation may be required.

“When talking about heavy drones, based on the classification most used abroad, I mean devices of two categories. The first of them is medium-altitude vehicles with a long flight duration, and the second is high-altitude UAVs with a long flight duration,” says industry specialist Denis Fedutinov.

“In addition to the high flight duration, which for some models can exceed 24 hours, they are capable of carrying a significant target load, which includes reconnaissance equipment - multi-channel optoelectronic systems that allow operation day and night from long distances, laser range finders and target designators, radar equipment , radio-electronic and radio-technical reconnaissance equipment, and strike weapons in the form of missiles and bombs of various types and power,” the expert details.

“The most prominent representatives of the mentioned categories are the American devices Predator, Gray Eagle and Reaper. They were widely used by the military and special structures of the United States itself and America’s allies in armed conflicts of recent decades, including Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as in anti-terrorist actions,” the analyst gives an example.


“Of those drones that are currently used in the special operation zone, we can name the Russian Forpost-R and the Pacer, which is also known by the factory name Orion. And in the future we hope to see here a heavier Altius, also known as Altair. The opposing side has at its disposal vehicles that are approximately between the size of the Forpost and the Pacer - these are Bayraktar TB2 purchased from Turkey,” explains Fedutinov.

The positive image of these drones, created with the participation of the marketing structures of American and Turkish companies, seriously influenced the expectations associated with them,” he believes. But the specialist clarifies that even then a number of experts doubted the effectiveness of heavy drones specifically within the framework of a special operation. “They are slow, unmaneuverable, and due to their weight and size characteristics, they are quite noticeable to air defense systems,” explains the analyst.

The expert is confident that the experience of the SVO has confirmed the correctness of this point of view. “Heavy drones were unable to realize their potential during the military operations and have a noticeable impact on the course of hostilities. Many devices were shot down, very few of the remaining ones are used,” he explains his position.

“If we accept that in the future our geopolitical and possibly military rival is the United States or Europe, acting directly or through their proxies, we need significant adjustments in the development and use of UAVs. For effective use in counter-countermeasures, other drones are needed. These could be devices that use visibility reduction technologies, or technologies that use group interaction as part of unmanned systems or mixed manned and unmanned aerial vehicles,” suggests Fedutinov. At the same time, he insists -

“And even in conditions close to those that we observe within the framework of the SVO, a number of functions are retained for them,” the interlocutor is sure. “So, they can conduct reconnaissance while outside enemy-controlled airspace. The United States actively uses its heavy Global Hawk and even Reaper drones in flights in international airspace, collecting intelligence data a couple of hundred kilometers deep into our territory,” the analyst says.

“In the future, the use of the same high-altitude Altius or other devices close to them in capabilities in order to look into a significant depth of enemy territory, collecting information on ground targets, would be a very useful addition,” the expert argues.

The analyst admits that heavy drones could be equipped with radar detection and surveillance equipment capable of detecting aerial targets. “In addition, those bombs with UMPC kits, which are now dropped from manned aircraft, may well be used in the future from similar drones. Ultimately, in case of failure, it is better to lose a drone, even a high-tech one, than a pilot,” the speaker emphasizes.


“Well, in addition, I will say that heavy UAVs operating with high-precision weapons from high altitudes will have the opportunity to be used in those sectors of the front where enemy air defense systems will be knocked out. The resulting gap will open a window of opportunity to strike key targets deep in the territory of the opposing side - MANPADS against high-altitude and even medium-altitude vehicles will be powerless,” Fedutinov concluded.

However, military expert, co-founder of the Vatfor project Oleg Makarov holds a slightly different point of view. “Before the start of the special operation, when FPV drones were not yet in use, it was believed that a drone was a brigade-level, or at most battalion-level device. The brigade had a UAV chief, who had at his disposal several heavy vehicles capable of performing reconnaissance to great depths,” he says.

“Today this concept has been revised. Despite the fact that the emphasis is on small copters, heavy drones have not disappeared anywhere. Otherwise, units with such drones would simply cease to exist. And their task is still the same – conducting reconnaissance behind enemy lines,” the analyst adds.

– notes the speaker. “At the same time, our air defense is almost continuous. As a result, heavy drones are rather of little use specifically for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Another detail is that Ukraine has few Soviet air defense systems left. And they save Western complexes, although they would not be enough to cover the entire line of combat contact, stretching for almost 2 thousand km,” continues Makarov.



Summarizing, he noted: “It would be nice for Russia to acquire a certain supply of heavy drones.” According to him, this is due to the fact that it is impossible to predict in what part of the world the next conflict may flare up, in which Russia’s participation will be required.

Click to expand...