Russia Economy Thread

[2handedswordsman]

Agree 100% on this. I never understood why the European powers especially were ok depending so much on gas/oil supplies from Russia (especially Germany who was the main architect pushing for this). Russia is not an ally and never has been. Things were bound to one day turned sour one way or another, was just à matter of time. It was foolish for European powers not to see that coming. Lol

Russians tried to "join" West but faced constant hostility. What amazes me is the arrogance and fooliness of the Western people in charge. In one hand they behaved to Russia as an undeclared enemy while on the other hand depend their economy at the cheap oil/gas from their "enemies". Now suck it cold! It's a pity for the most of ordinary people because people in charge took their bribes from US and there is no problem for them. So down the line, we have to carefully choose what we vote and even be ready to dethrone the corrupts

 

[quim]

Agree 100% on this. I never understood why the European powers especially were ok depending so much on gas/oil supplies from Russia (especially Germany who was the main architect pushing for this). Russia is not an ally and never has been. Things were bound to one day turned sour one way or another, was just à matter of time. It was foolish for European powers not to see that coming. Lol

Just necessity. Without cheap Russian energy the German industries would have evaporated long time ago due to loss of competitiveness.

China and Russia were the last breath of European industrial power. Europe was already a colony of the US since 1945, but still was minimally worthy due to certain industries. Now they have become a retirement home of elderly completely dependent on the US.

 

[Michael90]

Russians tried to "join" West but faced constant hostility. What amazes me is the arrogance and fooliness of the Western people in charge. In one hand they behaved to Russia as an undeclared enemy while on the other hand depend their economy at the cheap oil/gas from their "enemies". Now suck it cold! It's a pity for the most of ordinary people because people in charge took their bribes from US and there is no problem for them. So down the line, we have to carefully choose what we vote and even be ready to dethrone the corrupts

Thats just nonesense to be honest. RUSSIA has always had designs on eastern european, balkan states(which they consider as her sphere on influence) and even central Asian states. Reason the most anti Russian people on earth are from eastern europe and there is a good reason for that since Russia has been a colonial power looming over them for a very long time. Its for this reason E.U countries from eastern Europe have always been the most vocal opponent of Russia in Europe. They have a reason for doing so. Obviously a Chinese won't have the same feelings as things have now changed geopolitically, in the past China also suffered terrible from Russian aggressions and lost huge territories(almost the size of entite Western Europe) to Russia, and later the sino Soviet split only showed even more hostilities between both countries where Russia even threatened a nuclear strike on China. Had the CCP not decided to finally resolve the border issue with Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union then you can bet that most Chinese will have the same hostilities towards Russia just like eastern Europe even today. Luckily for China today she is a big country by landmass, population, resources and growing power(unlike in the past). So Russia couldn't impose some of her wills too much on China unlike on small eastern european countries and central Asian ones who cant hope to do much but rely on foriegn power to balance Russian influence. so of course , its easier for Chinese not to relate to that today. However, one cant blame those eastern european countries much.
I believe someone once said: " nobody knows you better than your close neighbours ".
This holds true for slavic and balkan states countries towards Russia. They know them very well, giving their troubled history.

 

[Michael90]

Just necessity. Without cheap Russian energy the German industries would have evaporated long time ago due to loss of competitiveness.

China and Russia were the last breath of European industrial power. Europe was already a colony of the US since 1945, but still was minimally worthy due to certain industries. Now they have become a retirement home of elderly completely dependent on the US.

They would have found other ways to go about it and adapt with time. What human beings are good at is adaptability. Especially so back then in the 80s to 90s when Western countries didnt have much competition in techbological field unlike today. So they would have found alternative ways to be productive.
Its like you saying China should continue relying on the US (a rival/enemy state) for her crucial energy needs or for her strategic tech industries just because its more convenient for China..see how silly such a policy sounds? Lol Had Chineee government been so silly to rely exclusivemy on the U.S for her crucial tech needs then she would have suffered massively after the US took any measures to cut them off.
I will say this again: "Only a fool will rely completely on his adversary/rival for her crucial needs" irrespective of the benefits of doing so. You should always make sure you have an alternative replacement in place and focus on building that up irrespective of anything, so that you are not caught off guard when shit hits the fan. Lol Definitely Germany and most western European countries never prepared for that, that’s due to their own foolishness not to foreuse that..

 

[quim]

They would have found other ways to go about it and adapt with time. What human beings are good at is adaptability. Especially so back then in the 80s to 90s when Western countries didnt have much competition in techbological field unlike today. So they would have found alternative ways to be productive.
Its like you saying China should continue relying on the US (a rival/enemy state) for her crucial energy needs or for her strategic tech industries just because its more convenient for China..see how silly such a policy sounds? Lol Had Chineee government been so silly to rely exclusivemy on the U.S for her crucial tech needs then she would have suffered massively after the US took any measures to cut them off.
I will say this again: "Only a fool will rely completely on his adversary/rival for her crucial needs" irrespective of the benefits of doing so. You should always make sure you have an alternative replacement in place and focus on building that up irrespective of anything, so that you are not caught off guard when shit hits the fan. Lol Definitely Germany and most western European countries never prepared for that, that’s due to their own foolishness not to foreuse that..

It's just the price of being America's slave.

Europe has been economically stagnant for 40 years, just like Japan.

Germany was the last major country that had any degree of growth thanks only to cheap energy from Russia and trade with China. Now even that is over.

It is dangerous to be an enemy of the US, but to be an ally is fatal.

 

[Abominable]

Thats just nonesense to be honest. RUSSIA has always had designs on eastern european, balkan states(which they consider as her sphere on influence) and even central Asian states. Reason the most anti Russian people on earth are from eastern europe and there is a good reason for that since Russia has been a colonial power looming over them for a very long time. Its for this reason E.U countries from eastern Europe have always been the most vocal opponent of Russia in Europe. They have a reason for doing so. Obviously a Chinese won't have the same feelings as things have now changed geopolitically, in the past China also suffered terrible from Russian aggressions and lost huge territories(almost the size of entite Western Europe) to Russia, and later the sino Soviet split only showed even more hostilities between both countries where Russia even threatened a nuclear strike on China. Had the CCP not decided to finally resolve the border issue with Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union then you can bet that most Chinese will have the same hostilities towards Russia just like eastern Europe even today. Luckily for China today she is a big country by landmass, population, resources and growing power(unlike in the past). So Russia couldn't impose some of her wills too much on China unlike on small eastern european countries and central Asian ones who cant hope to do much but rely on foriegn power to balance Russian influence. so of course , its easier for Chinese not to relate to that today. However, one cant blame those eastern european countries much.
I believe someone once said: " nobody knows you better than your close neighbours ".
This holds true for slavic and balkan states countries towards Russia. They know them very well, giving their troubled history.

This is not true. Eastern Europeans are anti-Russian only because doing so will give them more aid (US/EU) money. Germans put eastern Europeans in gas chambers along with the Jews, yet there is no anti-German hostility today.

Your own statements are contradictory. If China suffered terribly from Russian aggressions in the past, why are Chinese pro-Russian today? Surely they have every reason to be more anti Russian than the likes of Romania, Poland and Albania who were living in mud huts before the USSR came along.

 

[pmc]

A new metro and Airport terminal in Sakhalin. construction didnot stop even places that sparsely populated. I think Russia GDP is real based on construction, increasing food and deep R&D.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Russians tried to "join" West but faced constant hostility. What amazes me is the arrogance and fooliness of the Western people in charge. In one hand they behaved to Russia as an undeclared enemy while on the other hand depend their economy at the cheap oil/gas from their "enemies". Now suck it cold! It's a pity for the most of ordinary people because people in charge took their bribes from US and there is no problem for them. So down the line, we have to carefully choose what we vote and even be ready to dethrone the corrupts

Western attitudes towards Russia were not homogenous/uniform across countries. France and Germany would have preferred increasing cooperation and closer ties with Russia. Unsurprising, considering that they had the most to benefit from Russian energy, considering the size of their industries. On the other hand, US/UK have always been anti-Russian, and their influence along with the inclusion of staunchly anti-Russian Eastern European nations shifted the overall attitudes of Europe towards negative attitudes towards Russia. The US in particular outmaneuvered Russia and France/Germany into the current situation, which predominantly benefits the US to the detriment of the Russians and industrial continental European nations.

This is not true. Eastern Europeans are anti-Russian only because doing so will give them more aid (US/EU) money. Germans put eastern Europeans in gas chambers along with the Jews, yet there is no anti-German hostility today.

With the exception of Poland, most of Eastern Europe suffered under Russia for a much greater length of time and to a much greater extent. Even in the case of Poland, Russian occupation since the 19th century tended to be much harsher than German/Prussian and Austrian occupation during the same time period. During Germany's initial invasion of the USSR, it was common for non-Russian peoples in conquered Soviet territory to mistakenly greet the Germans as liberators. The bulk of the Waffen SS's foreign recruits incidentally came from Eastern European countries. Small numbers of Eastern Europeans even volunteered to serve in the administration of Germany's concentration camps. Every single nation that bordered the USSR voluntarily joined the Axis prior to even the onset of conflict with the USSR. Eastern/Central nations universally (with exception of Poland), both free nations and nations under Soviet control, had more negative attitudes towards the USSR than Germany.

Your own statements are contradictory. If China suffered terribly from Russian aggressions in the past, why are Chinese pro-Russian today? Surely they have every reason to be more anti Russian than the likes of Romania, Poland and Albania who were living in mud huts before the USSR came along.

Well, incidentally many Chinese were living in mud huts during periods of Russian aggression. Sino-Russian cooperation is a result of 1) increasingly shared geopolitical interests and economic synergies since the mid 2000s and 2) existence of common rivals with whom each share an equally long history of mistrust and suffering. This situation parallels with the tendency of Eastern/Central European nations choosing to cooperate with Germany against Russia. The attitudes of Russians/Chinese towards one another should be more characterized as apathic but cooperative due to recognition of need to work towards common interests and against common adversaries, rather than friendly or pro-Russian/pro-Chinese.

Chinese today should recognize the rational reasons to cooperate with Russia as long as the current global geopolitical situation continues and economic interests remain. However, Chinese should be cautious towards recognizing Russians as close comrades, and not forget that Russia once was one of the 3 largest perpetrators of aggression and exploitation during China's worst century. It is not uncommon for older Chinese living in Manchuria to have even more negative attitudes towards Russians than Japanese. Every now and then, take a look at a map of the Qing dynasty and compare it to the map today.

 

[Abominable]

With the exception of Poland, most of Eastern Europe suffered under Russia for a much greater length of time and to a much greater extent.

Poles were literally put into gas chambers by Germans for being "subhuman". How can anything the USSR or Russia do beat that? How does "time" change things?

If Russian occupation was so bad, why was the majority of Polish anger in the interwar years directed at the Germans?

All I see the USSR do was rebuild countries devastated by war (in some cases build them for the first time), establish new industries and share proprietary technology for free - something the US doesn't do to this day even with its closest "allies".

Even in the case of Poland, Russian occupation since the 19th century tended to be much harsher than German/Prussian and Austrian occupation during the same time period. During Germany's initial invasion of the USSR, it was common for non-Russian peoples in conquered Soviet territory to mistakenly greet the Germans as liberators.

You mean the Banderists? If so, I don't know what you mean by mistaken, they were very sincere in their welcoming. Even after they were rounded up and put into concentration camps by the Germans, they were still pro-German.

The bulk of the Waffen SS's foreign recruits incidentally came from Eastern European countries. Small numbers of Eastern Europeans even volunteered to serve in the administration of Germany's concentration camps. Every single nation that bordered the USSR voluntarily joined the Axis prior to even the onset of conflict with the USSR. Eastern/Central nations universally (with exception of Poland), both free nations and nations under Soviet control, had more negative attitudes towards the USSR than Germany.

Far more eastern Europeans joined the Red Army and fought against the Germans, what's your point here? When did Russia occupy Hungary or Czechoslovakia prior to WW2?

Well, incidentally many Chinese were living in mud huts during periods of Russian aggression. Sino-Russian cooperation is a result of 1) increasingly shared geopolitical interests and economic synergies since the mid 2000s and 2) existence of common rivals with whom each share an equally long history of mistrust and suffering. This situation parallels with the tendency of Eastern/Central European nations choosing to cooperate with Germany against Russia. The attitudes of Russians/Chinese towards one another should be more characterized as apathic but cooperative due to recognition of need to work towards common interests and against common adversaries, rather than friendly or pro-Russian/pro-Chinese.

This is the part where you start to make sense. Russia and China enjoy a close interest today because of shared geopolitical interests - specifically countering American imperialism. The historical account, as you seem to agree, for most of the last century Sino-Russian relations were poor.

In a similar manner (some) eastern European countries are opposed to Russia because of a benefit of EU/US aid payments, not because of any historical enmity. The same aid was going to Poland before WW2 from the UK to be deliberately anti-German.

I don't know how you (and the other person) can say this, and yet believe the previous point you were making. They are two diametrically opposed positions.

 

[Janiz]

All I see the USSR do was rebuild countries devastated by war (in some cases build them for the first time), establish new industries and share proprietary technology for free

You should start reading history books.