What noise level does SSKN have at 10 knots? Do you want to be going at top sustained speed when there are ASW assets around?
Rumoured "mini-nuke/diesel" Submarine SSK-N(?) thread
- Thread starter ACuriousPLAFan
- Start date
What noise level does SSKN have at 10 knots? Do you want to be going at top sustained speed when there are ASW assets around?
These discussions remind me of the submersible arsenal ship designs long ago. Why not autonomous and anchor a couple dozen between Hawaii and San Diego? That will keep a large portion of the USN busy in its own backyard.
10 knots is the transit speed to the area of operations aka Guam.
It should still be pretty quiet at this speed.
On patrol, I guess they'll drop to 3 knots
While such possibility is certainly valid, I do have reasons to believe that the SSK-N (or its further derivative/development) will be serial-produced for the PLAN in the coming years.
There are the following presentation slides on the SSK-N at an unknown PLAN conference/forum/presentation from sometime in 2017, which likely constituted the first official hint/indication of the SSK-N being in the works:
As a matter of fact, that's actually one of the many other presentation slides on other PLAN projects shown during that 2017 presentation - ALL of which have become reality today (or approaching reality in the coming years):
The aforementioned other projects include (but not limited to):
1. 052D/DG
2. 055
3. 05X DDG
4. YJ-20/21
5. YJ-XX
6. HQ-26/29(?)
6. 093B
7. KJ-600
They're mostly PPTs in 2017 - But all of them have moved beyond PPTs and into wide-scale deployment (or soon to be) in the PLAN.
It is with such purview where I can confidently say that all of the projects shown in the 2017 presentation slides (including the SSK-N) represent the actual WIP projects being undertaken by the PLAN at that time and going forward. Hence, I've high degree of confidence on the notion that the SSK-N is actually a seriously pursued project by the PLAN, of which the eventual product are to be fielded in the PLAN's subsurface fleet in the coming years.
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Sea and Air Control between Taiwan and Guam
2 x large aircraft carriers, and towards the forefront are N x 055 destroyers, and further towards the forefront and the flanks is the silent patrol of electric submarines with passive towed sonar so that nuclear submarines do not sneak in
That is, they form the first wall of the fleet, and as is logical, the first wall is submerged under water
and of course drones and satellites monitoring
and up in the heights fast spearmen-halberdiers of air superiority and great range of action
2 x large aircraft carriers, and towards the forefront are N x 055 destroyers, and further towards the forefront and the flanks is the silent patrol of electric submarines with passive towed sonar so that nuclear submarines do not sneak in
That is, they form the first wall of the fleet, and as is logical, the first wall is submerged under water
and of course drones and satellites monitoring
and up in the heights fast spearmen-halberdiers of air superiority and great range of action
Submerged subs consume so little power that range and endurance aren't a problem for them. In WW2 German submarines were a problem around Brazil and even South Africa. Currently, all SSK are marketed with endurance figures above 60 days. The Type 214, a 1800-tonne SSK, has an endurance of 84 days and a range of 19000 km.
The problem with conventional submarines is that they need to snorkel regularly and they cannot sprint for long. The combination of a small reactor and li-ion batteries solves the first one and greatly alleviates the second one. It hopefully does that without adding that much to the cost. This is the idea behind adding a small reactor to a SSK. If they didn't believe it would be significantly cheaper than a full on SSN with a 150-250 MW reactor they wouldn't entertain this idea. I think there is a decent chance that we will see an experimental sub first if they aren't entirely sure.
The problem with conventional submarines is that they need to snorkel regularly and they cannot sprint for long. The combination of a small reactor and li-ion batteries solves the first one and greatly alleviates the second one. It hopefully does that without adding that much to the cost. This is the idea behind adding a small reactor to a SSK. If they didn't believe it would be significantly cheaper than a full on SSN with a 150-250 MW reactor they wouldn't entertain this idea. I think there is a decent chance that we will see an experimental sub first if they aren't entirely sure.
IIRC, these slides were from a talk given by Rear Admiral Zhao Dengping at Northwestern Polytechnical University in Xian.
I'm not a expert on nuclear engineering, but I'm assuming a smaller nuclear reactor would be easier to cool in the sense that it could run at higher percentage of its rated power while still retaining natural circulation so potentially even with the reactor charging the batteries the submarine should still be very quiet. Potentially for a small submarine such as this they could even use a rim driven thruster to further lower noise, I'm pretty sure the PLAN has been working on rim driven thrusters for a while and there are commercial units with power output of 3MW available right now which is comparable to the average sized SSK's motor rated power. I feel like the with a smaller submarine like this the biggest issue is food, water and other supplies, but with higher automation with new technology perhaps they might even reduce crew to somewhere around 25 crew members for longer endurance and more space for sound dampening and other equipments.
yes, XLUUVs could have some real interesting applications
how fast do you think you can move with a sub like this with say 1 MWe power generation? there are real limitations in propulsion that uses Stirling engine. Remember, the wet area of a mini-nuke isn't that much smaller than a 093B.
crew member still need to eat and live in there. Longer deployment requires more space per crew member. What kind of missions are PLAN designing for these boats?
UUV’s could be used to deliver provisions to SSK-N’s to extend their patrol times.
It might also be safe for these submarines to surface in areas that are protected by Type 055’s and Type 054B’s and be resupplied by UAV or USV, or even an AG-600 which could rotate an entire crew of 50 people at sea.
Against Guam these resupply and even crew rotation missions could occur deep in the Sulu, Celebes or South China Seas. Even if they are detected they are well protected in bubbles of air and sea dominance.
It might also be safe for these submarines to surface in areas that are protected by Type 055’s and Type 054B’s and be resupplied by UAV or USV, or even an AG-600 which could rotate an entire crew of 50 people at sea.
Against Guam these resupply and even crew rotation missions could occur deep in the Sulu, Celebes or South China Seas. Even if they are detected they are well protected in bubbles of air and sea dominance.
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