ROC subs

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darth sidious

Banned Idiot
KYli said:
I agreed that US could probably find a way to make subs for Taiwan, but it is not as easy as you might think. US has never bulit a diesel subs for decades, so they have to start from scrap.
Taiwan have some capability to build decent subs, but they do need help from US. The biggest problem is US do not have blueprint for diesel subs, US even need to get their blueprint from Europe. Since Europeans naions do not want to get involve into this, this create dilemma for US. People will know what the design come from, because there aren't that much blueprint out there.
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Taiwan can construct the subs hull but not much else. design is not a big problem they can use th edutch copy of barbel as the starting point. But where would the sonar, engines and combat control system come from is beyond me.they conld try to smuggle/steal some parts but that a bit risky. country that license produce SSK can be bribed to give some assistance. the cost of builting new ones in us rules out that option
 
K

KYli

Brigadier
darth sidious said:
Taiwan can construct the subs hull but not much else. design is not a big problem they can use th edutch copy of barbel as the starting point. But where would the sonar, engines and combat control system come from is beyond me.they conld try to smuggle/steal some parts but that a bit risky. country that license produce SSK can be bribed to give some assistance. the cost of builting new ones in us rules out that option
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That is what I am saying, Taiwan could not built a modern subs without direct help from US. I doubt Taiwan could smuggle these kind of high tech without drawing attention, and it make no sense to do it that way whatsoever. Countries can be bribe to give assistance, but it takes more than that to built a decent subs.
 
D

darth sidious

Banned Idiot
KYli said:
That is what I am saying, Taiwan could not built a modern subs without direct help from US. I doubt Taiwan could smuggle these kind of high tech without drawing attention, and it make no sense to do it that way whatsoever. Countries can be bribe to give assistance, but it takes more than that to built a decent subs.
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criemal activity can yield surpiseing results:D

the taiwanese manage to smuggle out several Mark-48 torperdo in early 90s

they also got SUT torperdo from a certin south east asian country that opertes 209 sub( this country has some bad relation with china in the 50s which led to masscare of chinese civilians ) think the price was some old Lst/Lsm

but unless they are reely desperate they wont resort to such measure
 
DPRKUnderground

DPRKUnderground

Junior Member
KYli said:
I agreed that US could probably find a way to make subs for Taiwan, but it is not as easy as you might think. US has never bulit a diesel subs for decades, so they have to start from scrap.

Taiwan have some capability to build decent subs, but they do need help from US. The biggest problem is US do not have blueprint for diesel subs, US even need to get their blueprint from Europe. Since Europeans naions do not want to get involve into this, this create dilemma for US. People will know what the design come from, because there aren't that much blueprint out there.
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One of the plans was to build either a German or Dutch design in the US, but they refused. Unless the US can get the blueprints for a good design, Taiwan is out of luck.
 
S

Su-34

New Member
Well, i don't think that the Taiwanese will pass a budget for purchase of 8 diesel subs. Even if Taiwan Navy does have 8 diesel subs by 2016, by that year, the PLAN will have a huge submarine force of 8-12 Yuan SSKs, 15 Song SSKs, 12 Kilo SSKs, 19 Ming SSKs, and 6-8 Type 093 SSNs. And that's just the PLAN sub force, excluding destroyers, frigates, FACs, and the PLANAF.
 
DPRKUnderground

DPRKUnderground

Junior Member
Su-34 said:
Well, i don't think that the Taiwanese will pass a budget for purchase of 8 diesel subs. Even if Taiwan Navy does have 8 diesel subs by 2016, by that year, the PLAN will have a huge submarine force of 8-12 Yuan SSKs, 15 Song SSKs, 12 Kilo SSKs, 19 Ming SSKs, and 6-8 Type 093 SSNs. And that's just the PLAN sub force, excluding destroyers, frigates, FACs, and the PLANAF.
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Taiwan wants them so they can block any ships or submarines trying to get into their ports. The 2 submarines that are operational would be used to defend their ports and to stop them from hitting their port cities and getting into the waterways.
 
S

Su-34

New Member
DPRKUnderground said:
Taiwan wants them so they can block any ships or submarines trying to get into their ports. The 2 submarines that are operational would be used to defend their ports and to stop them from hitting their port cities and getting into the waterways.
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LOL! DPRK, don't make me laugh!:roll:

How will Taiwan Navy block PLAN ships and subs with their current 2 or future 8 diesel subs when the Taiwanese Navy's subs and ships will be blown out of the water by torpedoes fired by PLA Navy submarines like Yuan class, Song class, Kilo class, Ming class, 093 class, and PLAN destroyers like 052B/C class aand FACs like the stealthy 2208 class. Plus, PLANAF aircraft like JH-7A and Su-30MKK2 will annihilate ROC Navy surface ships in a day.

Plus, PLAN's Kilo class Project 636 submarine armed with Novator 3M-54E with a range of 220 km and a supersonic final warhead will crush ROCN's Kidd class Destroyer.
 
S

Sea Dog

Junior Member
VIP Professional
A link. for those that might be interested:

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It looks like Electric Boat wants the work. There's no doubt that they could build diesel subs. They just need some upfront money to get design work going.
 
V

vincelee

Junior Member
speaking from a point of view that centers purely on practicality, spending like 2-3 bil on 8 subs and support packages for a country the size of Taiwan is a bit....extreme. Honestly, the US hasn't built OR maintained an SSK for decades. And what's up with the 12 billion figure? At more than a bil a piece, they might as well buy a burke or two.

PacCom's boss is perfectly correct when he said that the money can be better spent else where.

To be perfectly honest, I wonder why some congressmen even talk, clearly they are just retarded in fields such as this. And working for the CIA doesn't mean shit.
 
DPRKUnderground

DPRKUnderground

Junior Member
Su-34 said:
LOL! DPRK, don't make me laugh!:roll:

How will Taiwan Navy block PLAN ships and subs with their current 2 or future 8 diesel subs when the Taiwanese Navy's subs and ships will be blown out of the water by torpedoes fired by PLA Navy submarines like Yuan class, Song class, Kilo class, Ming class, 093 class, and PLAN destroyers like 052B/C class aand FACs like the stealthy 2208 class. Plus, PLANAF aircraft like JH-7A and Su-30MKK2 will annihilate ROC Navy surface ships in a day.

Plus, PLAN's Kilo class Project 636 submarine armed with Novator 3M-54E with a range of 220 km and a supersonic final warhead will crush ROCN's Kidd class Destroyer.
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That's what I was thinking. But wasn't it a simple chain that kept the Ottomans out of the Constantinople harbor for a few weeks? Global Secuity says that that's what Taiwan will do. $12B for 8 diesel subs is unheard of, but I think some of that money would go into R&D.
 
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