Jura The idiot
General
great post, Brother
my whole point has been there's an inadequate protection of the Raptors down at Tyndall against WHATEVER hurricane may come
Risk of Natural disasters vs Military facilities
- Thread starter TerraN_EmpirE
- Start date
my whole point has been there's an inadequate protection of the Raptors down at Tyndall against WHATEVER hurricane may come
Roger that, but big hangars are expensive too, hopefully everyone has learned from rhis!
First off, I am not going to speak for Jura. He has his own opinions, some I agree with, some I do not.
Secondly, may I ask pointedly, if politely, have you been in or are currently in the military? If not, have you worked with the military as a contractor?
I've done the latter. I would have done the former, but, alas, I have some physical traits that prevented it. That said, my family has been in the military (and is in the military) for a long time. I have seen, I have experienced and I have even participated in how the US military is run.
Please, STOP assuming. And, please, stop the ad hominem. Take a breath.
I want the US military to function well.
Thirdly, I am well aware of why the F-22s were not flown out and why the hangars were as they were: no hurricanes of that force had gone through there, AFAIK, at that strength. The hangars present would have handled one of the historical hurricanes. Michael also went from a Cat 3 to Cat 5 in a shocking short time. Given the costs, I can understand why there were no cat 5 proof hangars there.
However, given the last 15 years of hurricanes, it would have been a good thing to do anyways. The F-22 is literally irreplaceable at this juncture. Putting in hardened shelters seems like a no brainer, but one that's not cheap.
Additionally, you do realize who ACTUALLY makes the budget in the US, right? A President proposes the budget. Congress actually writes it and enacts it. The Republicans have been in charge of Congress since 2010 and Obama vetoed a total of 12 pieces of legislation. The same number as Bush. And one third of what Clinton did. At any time, Congress could have passed more funding for maintenance on the aircraft for readiness and it would have been unlikely they would have faced a veto. They did not pass that budget incorporating the necessary funds.
Likewise, the sequestration was the Budget Control Act of 2011 advocated for and pushed through by the Republicans after they took back control of Congress. They wanted it to force reduction on the budget to force a reduction in the deficit. Or so they said. They required it in exchange for raising the borrowing limit for the US, so we would not default on bonds and loans. It was a game of chicken and they won. Then the sequester kicked in and...
Things got worse.
There are a great many things to be angry with Obama with, foreign policy, defense and otherwise. However, we don't live in a dictatorship. In our system, a President can't just wave his hands and make things better or worse. His (or some day, when the right one comes, her) actions are limited by Congress. Trump won't magically make things happen either. SecDef Mattis may or may not fix things. We will see. The President did say Mattis was (paraphrasing) sorta a democrat. He may not be around much longer with comments like that.
Returning to specifically the Tyndall situation. Originally, the USAF brass stated *4* aircraft were left behind. Lo and behold, it was 17. They knew that number from the get go and yet...inaccurate statement. Why state otherwise? Lockheed has flown out engineers to assess the damage done. We will know, eventually, how much it will cost to fix those 17. I sincerely hope it's very low. I doubt it. But! I have been wrong before and will be again. That said, the brass already has made inaccurate statements. Given the sensitivity of how many F-22s are functioning, why are you NOT suspicious about what they say?
Any individual in power, whether the military brass or politicians, need to be watched and kept honest. Power corrupts and temptation is very, very real. Few people are truly Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus.
So, stop getting in a huff and ranting at us. Show us we are actually wrong. The way to do so is to have the actual budget costs of the Raptors being returned to service and actually being returned to service. Rah-rah rants are not going to cut it. Real, hard dollars, data and dates will.
PS. Before you think it, life long Republican.
PPS Just stating again, for the record, not speaking for Jura.
Jura The idiot
General
well I can imagine the Pentagon will say it was once-in-lifetime event or something
anyway check my 'green Thai curry' on Facebook LOL the meat was turkey, the potatoes soaked in the sauce just as I wanted
10-4 sounds good, I just grilled a steak for the dog and I, or I guess I should have said, me and the dog! I fixed "Taco Soup" for the bank ladies yesterday, my wife is head teller, and her boss was out on medical, and on of their former faithful long time managers had come back to help my wife manage things... yesterday was her last day of TDY, so my wife stated that she should have made "taco soup" as she was leaving for work.....
Well, I've never made taco soup, but I got on the internet and refined my recipe, it turned out very nice, and our former manager was very tickled that I had made them all taco soup, one our daughter's and I joined them for lunch...
you have an official AFB apology due to you sir, and I have already extended one to our brother Anzha,,, he's also a budget wonk like you Bub! LOL
I'm the Air Force Brat, I think that is fairly clear, and very, very appreciative of those who serve in the military, and those who serve as civilian contractors.
I'm glad Jura has a Brother named Anzha, you guys sound like the "Honey Badger",,, we've raised 9 kids, amazing, but no matter how flush the checking acct may appear? she's trying to "put the ka-bosh" on ANY unnecessary expenses such as cars, airplanes, guns,, I told her I was thinking of going in with my little brother on his plane, she told me in NO UNCERTAIN terms that I did NOT have airplane money!!! LOL
Anyway, Here is your first official "Air Force Brat apology!" I do trust our Air Force Leadership, those who head fighter wings have to be fighters pilot and outstanding humans to join the USAF upper echelon! My Dad was a Lt. Col when he retired, he was to be promoted to full bird, and assigned to be the "Air Attache" to the American Ambassador to Chile. My Mom really wanted to go, but the old man retired instead, stating, the communist are going to over throw the Govt, they did, and we moved back to the farm!,,, LOL, I hated it, my DAD was offered sever flying positions, but wanted to get back to farming!
Anyway, I am a pilot, and I do particularly love the F-22, so I'm hoping that NGAD might actually turn out to be an F-22/F-35 hybrid! I'd highly recommend making those incremental changes that would keep us living in the real world!
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Just to point this out, Hurricane force 5 is basically the end of the world where ever they go.
I compare it to a nuclear weapons strike.
It's not easy cheap or even practical to build hangers to that rating on every base.
Even civilian buildings if a smaller size are complicated to build to that rating with limited actual proof that they can take it.
I compare it to a nuclear weapons strike.
It's not easy cheap or even practical to build hangers to that rating on every base.
Even civilian buildings if a smaller size are complicated to build to that rating with limited actual proof that they can take it.
well, we'll see what they do. The NGAD is going to be different than the F-22: it needs far, far longer range than the F-22 can manage, even a slightly enlarged one like Lockheed was pushing for the Japanese (which the Japanese have rejected in favor of a new homegrown aircraft due to the costs). The F-22 was designed with fighting in Europe in mind against the Soviet Union. The Pacific has far, far greater ranges involved and even with the KC-Z/KC-46 combo, the aircraft just need to get farther.
Also, the tools of the trade are changing. Assuming lasers come to fruition in the next three to five years as they appear to be, dogfighting is dead. Like really dead. the pointer tracker systems can lock on and track almost any target once they have a radar or I suppose lidar cue. If you're within 30 km, and the laser can be brought to bare, you're toast. Note: the same laser can be 'piped' to multiple PTS, so you can (if you design it in place) put it dorsal and ventral. Maneuverability won't matter.
To counter that, you're going to want to have weapons that can engage at wildly rapid speeds and way, way beyond the visual horizon. It will also mean needing a really deep magazine: your first shots are probably not going to be kills.
IMO, the F-22 will be the last classic fighter. Think more stealthy F-111, or something mind way between the F-111 and the B-1B, not F-22.
Just IMO. I've been wrong before and will be again, but my chits are on birds rather different than today.
Jura The idiot
General
actually I wanted to apologize to you if I sounded as if I were some 'Enemy of the State'
now will go to TE below ...