Renminbi (RMB)/Yuan Appreciation & Internationalization

FairAndUnbiased · Nov 20, 2023

Biscuits said:
This. China of all people have a good grasp of the fact that dollar is a scam. How come then that China still keeps supporting dollar, yet at the same time, dollar isn't able to stop China from maintaining a larger economy and growing faster than US?

It's because from the start, instead of openly calling out US, China continually displaced the scam on other countries, thereby profiting off US' own scam.

US gives China worthless dollars for goods, China makes shitty countries get the dollar in exchange for resource and market gains, allowing more wealth and productive ability to accumulate in China. The end result being 2 winners (US getting more bloated economy) (China getting wealth distribution and an even better performing economy) and 1 loser (whoever agrees to become the final holder).

This is one of the things that most frustrate US about China. Dollar was supposed to give them control over the world, instead, China exploited it to go from soviet living standard to europe living standard in less than 1 generation. And there's no easy way to untangle China from the dollar system, without also destroying the bloated US economy created by Chinese participation.

Not Soviet. Way overestimation. 1970s Soviets had full healthcare, social housing, over 50% college admission (on par with US and Canada) and equal life expectancy to the US. Personal cars weren't everywhere but were common. People commonly traveled by air. Chinese didn't have anything close to this.

Older Russians and Ukrainians all know that while they lived smaller than Americans they had plenty of room to look down on "the less fortunate from 3rd world Asian and African countries".

In China back in the 1970s, an electric fan was something you had to save for. Even into the 1990s the best car for corrupt officials was a... VW Santana. Very few outside of taxi drivers and corrupt officials owned cars.

China has improved way more than Soviet to European. Mao inherited a country worse than Africa due to KMT weakness and mismanagement. He took it from poorer than Africa to just "regular" 3rd world country but punching above its weight in science, tech and culture. Deng started the painful 1980s and 1990s reforms (which looked on the outside much like typical 3rd world country stuff) which set the stage for the big boom in the Hu and Xi era.

HereToSeePics · Nov 20, 2023

Biscuits said:
It's because from the start, instead of openly calling out US, China continually displaced the scam on other countries, thereby profiting off US' own scam.

Ultimately, a country with good leadership always looks out for the best interest of it's people first. You cannot fault China for exchanging some of it's USD assets to other countries that do need USD assets for a somewhat mutually beneficial relationship. If the other country is desperate for USD to meet contractual obligations and willing to pay a premium for it, someone will step in, whether it's China, the IMF or Wall Street.

Biscuits said:
This is one of the things that most frustrate US about China. Dollar was supposed to give them control over the world, instead, China exploited it to go from soviet living standard to europe living standard in less than 1 generation. And there's no easy way to untangle China from the dollar system, without also destroying the bloated US economy created by Chinese participation.

Same as in US policy speak - China doesn't necessarily need to "decouple" from the USD, but "derisk". As for the USD being a "scam", I think that statement is too generalized and broad. For the immediate decades after WWII, the USD served a purpose with vast global benefits by facilitating trade and commerce. It's only the later half of the 20th century did the United States started weaponizing the dollar after solidifying global integration from earlier good will.

Africablack · Nov 20, 2023

FairAndUnbiased said:
Not Soviet. Way overestimation. 1970s Soviets had full healthcare, social housing, over 50% college admission (on par with US and Canada) and equal life expectancy to the US. Personal cars weren't everywhere but were common. People commonly traveled by air. Chinese didn't have anything close to this.

Older Russians and Ukrainians all know that while they lived smaller than Americans they had plenty of room to look down on "the less fortunate from 3rd world Asian and African countries".

In China back in the 1970s, an electric fan was something you had to save for. Even into the 1990s the best car for corrupt officials was a... VW Santana. Very few outside of taxi drivers and corrupt officials owned cars.

China has improved way more than Soviet to European. Mao inherited a country worse than Africa due to KMT weakness and mismanagement. He took it from poorer than Africa to just "regular" 3rd world country but punching above its weight in science, tech and culture. Deng started the painful 1980s and 1990s reforms (which looked on the outside much like typical 3rd world country stuff) which set the stage for the big boom in the Hu and Xi era.

Africa is not a country, I don't understand why people keep comparing a country with a continent. Many African cities in the 1960s and the 1970s had pretty good living standards. You have to understand that some African countries are richer than others.

Michaelsinodef · Nov 20, 2023

Africablack said:
Africa is not a country, I don't understand why people keep comparing a country with a continent. Many African cities in the 1960s and the 1970s had pretty good living standards. You have to understand that some African countries are richer than others.

He said countries, not cities.

And yes, there indeed some richer and more developed countries in Africa, but they are the minority (in both number of countries and number of people).

But I don't think what he said is all that wrong (Africa as a whole/average being poor / 3rd world / undeveloped), and it's also a perception that is very pervasive every and throughout the last many decades.

Africablack · Nov 20, 2023

Michaelsinodef said:
He said countries, not cities.

And yes, there indeed some richer and more developed countries in Africa, but they are the minority (in both number of countries and number of people).

But I don't think what he said is all that wrong (Africa as a whole/average being poor / 3rd world / undeveloped), and it's also a perception that is very pervasive every and throughout the last many decades.

I'm comparing living standards across the board, I'd rather preferred to live in Abidjan, Ivory Coast in the 1960's than Beijing for example. I don't think the rural areas in China back then were even much better if at all. I see people comparing countries to a continent and it's laughable. We like to get at western media propaganda, we shouldn't fall for the "all of Africa is the same" narrative. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

In4ser · Nov 20, 2023

I’ve been thinking, Argentina dollarizing could be a great opportunity for China as they not only need US dollars but must accept it in exchange for delivery of goods and services. Provided that Milei still wants to maintain trade with China, Beijing can dump its ginormous amounts of its USD holdings for commodities and foods even easier.

Michaelsinodef · Nov 20, 2023

Africablack said:
I'm comparing living standards across the board, I'd rather preferred to live in Abidjan, Ivory Coast in the 1960's than Beijing for example. I don't think the rural areas in China back then were even much better if at all. I see people comparing countries to a continent and it's laughable. We like to get at western media propaganda, we shouldn't fall for the "all of Africa is the same" narrative. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

And how many people lived in Abidjan in 1960's? Or in similar richer cities in Africa?

3%? 5%? of all the people in Africa? Likely even far less.

Not to mention, @FairAndUnbiased basically said that China was poorer than Africa as a whole, and on average in the 40s and 50s (might even been into the 60s).

Africablack · Nov 20, 2023

Michaelsinodef said:
And how many people lived in Abidjan in 1960's? Or in similar richer cities in Africa?

3%? 5%? of all the people in Africa? Likely even far less.

Not to mention, @FairAndUnbiased basically said that China was poorer than Africa as a whole, and on average in the 40s and 50s (might even been into the 60s).

How many Asians lived in Tokyo in the 1960s? That's how ridiculous that question is. Japan is a country, Ivory Coast is a country. This need to constantly bunch up a continent and judge it as if it were a single country is annoying.

Michaelsinodef · Nov 20, 2023

Africablack said:
How many Asians lived in Tokyo in the 1960s? That's how ridiculous that question is. Japan is a country, Ivory Coast is a country. This need to constantly bunch up a continent and judge it as if it were a single country is annoying.

China is a country with 1/3 of the size of Africa, and like population that kinda 'nears' or can kind of be compared to Africa's population.

Africablack · Nov 20, 2023

Michaelsinodef said:
China is a country with 1/3 of the size of Africa, and like population that kinda 'nears' or can kind of be compared to Africa's population.

It really can't. Africa is far more diverse and it doesn't have single government, in short the dynamics are different.

Renminbi (RMB)/Yuan Appreciation & Internationalization

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier

HereToSeePics

Junior Member

Africablack

Junior Member

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member

Africablack

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In4ser

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Michaelsinodef

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Africablack

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Michaelsinodef

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Africablack

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