QTS-11 OICW. 5.8 mm Heavy and 20 mm Air Burst.

by78 said:

I think the best you could have inferred from my posting habits would be that I'm not a voluable member of the forum, so that I have less opportunities to speak glibly.

Speaking for myself, I know what I don't know (most of the time) and speak when I have something to add. If I don't know something, I don't pretend that I know, and I would ask for answers. I'm way past the age when I'm in love with my own voice and would risk making a fool of myself.

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Then maybe you can take that advice for yourself before you made that post only to wait for someone else to pick it up for you.

Viktor Jav said:

So we are changing the goal posts now are we, by moving the argument away from the feasibility of entire squads being equipped with QTS-11 to how an entire squad equipped with QTS-11 might use them and in what fashion ?
Because those are 2 very different things, and if that is the gist of your contentment then it should be clear from the start.

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There is no moving of goal post, but rather a rejection of your straw man.

Here's the original question again:

Wonder if they will volley fire those grenades if the whole squad gets them?

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Viktor Jav said:

Then maybe you can take that advice for yourself before you made that post only to wait for someone else to pick it up for you.

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I was away for a moment. I don't glue my eyes to the forum.

Viktor Jav said:

So we are changing the goal posts now are we, by moving the argument away from the feasibility of entire squads being equipped with QTS-11 to how an entire squad equipped with QTS-11 might use them and in what fashion ?
Because those are 2 very different things, and if that is the gist of your contentment then it should be clear from the start.

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The original question did not ask about the feasibility of entire squads being equipped with QTS-11.

The original question only asked about whether an entire squad that was hypothetically all equipped with QTS-11 might fire their grenades in a volley.


If anyone here is moving the goalposts or misinterpreting the question here, it is you.

Viktor Jav said:

Unless the PLA is willing to ditch the QBZ-95 in lieu of the QBZ-03 I don't see that happening. Especially since so much money and effort had been made to equip all the grunts with the QBZ-95 over the better part of the decade. Then there is the doctrinal problem, if everyone gets a QTS-11 (ignoring the price tag) who is going to be the riflemen, the forward scout or the one who wields the Squad Support Weapon?

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Lets try this again, this imperfect analogy will have to suffice:

Q: I wonder if all the kids in my the 3rd-grade math class can play basketball together if the school builds a new indoor basketball court.

A: Unless Singapore is willing build new indoor basketball courts to replace all the old basketball courts across the entire country, I don't see it happening, especially since so much money and effort had been expended to equip all the schools with basketball courts over the better part of the century. And then there's the problem with position assignments. How do we decide who is going to play the forward, the point guard, the center, the shooting guard, and so on?

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I asked the question because of the following reasons:

1. In the picture it looks like the whole squad got them.
2. Maybe the reason for a single shot launcher is that you get fire rate from many users.
3. There have been example of special units receiving different weapons from the army. e.g. FG42 och assault squad with only PPSh SMG. In China whole units have gotten qbz03 instead of qbz95.

ohan_qwe said:

3. There have been example of special units receiving different weapons from the army. e.g. FG42 och assault squad with only PPSh SMG. In China whole units have gotten qbz03 instead of qbz95

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On this one because QBZ95 and QBZ03 are the same class of weapon with the same Ammo type you are not going to mix 03 and 95.
Where as QJY 88 and QBU 88 are weapons that augment the squad.

Splurging on infantry equipment has never really been a problem for the PLA. The QTS-11 seems quite expensive for what it is, but so is most of the equipment on active duty soldiers like those in Xinjiang. The profits come back to the state anyways, since the companies are state owned.

But, there is a problem that immediately comes to mind when equipping the whole army with QTS-11. A QTS-11 weighs almost twice as much as a QBZ-95. These weapons are not directly comparable. Soldiers with QTS-11 would be significantly more encumbered. For certain missions, a lighter assault rifle will be superior. As such, I can’t see a “normal” squad having more than a fraction using the QTS-11.

Biscuits said:

But, there is a problem that immediately comes to mind when equipping the whole army with QTS-11. A QTS-11 weighs almost twice as much as a QBZ-95. These weapons are not directly comparable. Soldiers with QTS-11 would be significantly more encumbered. For certain missions, a lighter assault rifle will be superior. As such, I can’t see a “normal” squad having more than a fraction using the QTS-11.

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Not almost it is twice as much.
The weight that has normally been kicked around was the weight without optical sights which add another 4 pounds making it a 15 pound weapon the QBZ 95 is 7.2 pounds.
It’s likely that the troops issued the QTS 11 will need more specialized training for maintenance and operations of the weapons. It’s also likely that the soldiers using it will have less 5.8 mm ammo, traded off for the heavier weapon and more specialized ammo of the 20mm grenades.
Add in the added cost which would be significantly higher than that of even a highly modernized rifle with optics and just how many there will be is a question. Asia times claimed 50,000 circa January 2018.

I think a key rationale for the QTS11 is to counter ever advancing body armour.

The US is looking at 6.5/6.8 and higher cal rounds to counter Russian and Chinese lvl4 equivalent plate. That adds significant weight in weapon and ammo.

China has show little sign that it is interest in such ‘overmatch’ calibers, and instead is playing with the QTS11 and smart grenades.

The long barrel and high pressure especially means the smart grenade probably shoots pretty flat, so I can easily see them using those for direct fire and HEAT like rounds to penetrate plate with explosive jets on impact.

The corner shooting ability with scope and eyepiece also seems like a direct counter to the suppression fire centric infantry tactic US and NATO forces prefer.