QBZ-191 service rifle family

by78

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A high-resolution version of a previously shared image.

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49905766082_1b359f7377_k.jpg

@AZaz09dude, upon closer examination, you were right: this is a dummy training rifle. Many minute features are wrong or missing, such as various drill holes and artifacts from the construction process, the safety, the grip textures, among others. And the finish looks too shiny (not matte enough), but that could just be the lighting.
 
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sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
Does anyone have the high res tree photos of the long barreled rifle?
 

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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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The rail under the barrel seems tiny.

That's the idea.

On the standard infantry variant for both the carbine and the full length rifle, the handguard has 3, 6 and 9 o'clock slots for installing small rail sections onto the handguard to allow for accessories.

It's a pretty wise decision because your standard infantry don't need a massively long rail sections for tons of accessories.
 

EdgeOfEcho

Junior Member
Registered Member
The rail under the barrel seems tiny.

Just like Bltizo said, rails are only useful when you need them. If you have inches of rails on all sides of a handguard and you are not gonna use them, they are going to be extra weight on the gun. Also, picatinny rails cut your hand open pretty easily if you are not wearing gloves. These are the reasons why a lot of gun manufactures are going into producing keymods and M-Lok rails on their guns in which people can attach short rails for the particular attachments (IR pointer, laser, pressure pads, grips) they want without unused long rails.

For the weight issue, let me give you an example. I run this thing (Surefire Warden)on my gun, its a blast mitigator/mock suppressor, it weights 7.8 ounces/221g. I bought it for its looks, but I never use it at ranges because it just makes the gun so much heavier to aim and shoot. My accuracy when shooting standing up is significantly hindered due to this extra 200g of weight on the end of my barrel, my hands just get extra shaky due to this extra weight.
1589750800582.png

Now, a 13 slot rail (about 5 inches long) weights around 1.48 ounces, which is about 42 grams. For a 14.5 inch barrel M4A1 SOPMOD II that uses a free float hand guard (Daniel Defense, for example), the length of the handguard is around 12.5 inches long. That means, if you are running full Picatinny rails on all 3 sides of that handguard (except for the top), you are look at adding about 252g of extra weight to the front of the gun, which is not insignificant. Those extra 200 grams on the front of your gun can slow down your aiming speed, target acquisition speed and mobility when controlling your gun. Although it will not be as bad as a full 200g on the tip of your barrel, it is still some weight that can, and should be shaven off especially for a solider that will carry it all day long with lots of other gears.

1589751215802.png

Besides the weight issue, Picatinny rails can cut your hand pretty badly when you are doing quick reloads under stressful situations without a glove on, and I am not sure if PLA will issue every grunt decent combat gloves in the near future.

I used to have rails installed on the side of my UMP clone like this:
1589751630765.png

But I got rid of them after the first time to the range, because when I was pulling back on the charging handle during a quick reload(no gloves), I cut the entire palm of my hand open and I was bleeding everywhere. Will the little cut prevent a solider from shooting an enemy effectively? No. But is it annoying? Hell yes.

On other weapon platforms, there are quite a few times where I do cut my hand on the bottom and side rail of the hand guard when transitioning the gun quickly to different shoulders, or getting my hand back onto the hand guard after a reload. Are these fatal issues that will incapacitate a solder during battle? Again obviously no, but it is still annoying as hell to have fingers that bleed.

Thus, if adding unnecessarily long rails to a gun is not only more expensive, makes the gun heavier, cuts people's hands open (mind you, most rifles that PLA issues have no Picatinny rail on the hand guard, so people need getting used to them), why not just dig slots onto the hand guard and allow people to customize it whenever they need?
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
That's the idea.

On the standard infantry variant for both the carbine and the full length rifle, the handguard has 3, 6 and 9 o'clock slots for installing small rail sections onto the handguard to allow for accessories.

It's a pretty wise decision because your standard infantry don't need a massively long rail sections for tons of accessories.
What is the down side of having a large rail like civilian gun?

Edit: never mind someone explained.
 

EdgeOfEcho

Junior Member
Registered Member
I was digging through some old footage and pictures of QBZ191 and noticed a few things that I thought was interesting.

1. The debate regarding the magazine release vs bolt release on the right side of the gun.
I know there was some confusion around this, and if the debate has been settled, I apologize for bringing this up again.

This old picture was interesting to me:

1589829558604.png
Notice the gap there, I believe this suggests that the extended flap here is not a part of the magazine release, but a separate part for bolt release.

If this is true, then it is a very well-thought out design, a comparison to VZ58 (picture to the bottom right with 2 circles, yellow circle is magazine release, blue circle is where bolt release mechanism is located, although it is not functional on default VZ58s) shows how much more ergonomic QBZ191 is.

Notice how much longer and wider the magazine release on the QBZ191 is compared to the VZ58's (yellow circle). The magazine release on the QBZ191 is longer and wider than the trigger guard, making it much more accessible from both sides of the gun. I'm pretty sure you can drop the magazine easily by just pushing on this huge magazine release with the index finger of the hand that is holding the pistol grip with either the left or right hand.


1589829942230.png

Oh and another thing, I really like what they did to the fire selector switch. Max 90 degree rotation feels a lot more comfortable than 180 degree rotation (30 degree per switch vs 90 degree per switch between fire modes). This may seem like a small feature, but when HK upgraded their HK416A5 to HK416A6, this is one of the most prominent changes made. You can switch from safety to single fire so much faster!

2. Accuracy of QBZ191:

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At 2:47 of this video, you can see this picture:
1589831528098.png

Apparently this is the 208 Institute testing QBZ191 in Tibet to see its high altitude performance (around 5000m in altitude). The Chinese on the paper does not indicate any useful information like distance or barrel length, it only says "Group 3". Everything else is too blurry.

I'm not very familiar with ballistics or how low air pressure and low oxygen affects bullet accuracy. But one of the core features of QBZ191 according to the lead designer is high accuracy, and that MOA on the paper does not seem too bad for a service rifle even at 100m considering they are shooting it at 5000m above sea level...

3. Some random facts on the QBZ191
According to the lead designers, over 300 prototypes of the gun was made, and they tested it with over 2 million rounds fired. (A lot of the previous leak photos we saw over the past few years may, in fact, be legit. They were probably just earlier prototypes during various stages of development.)

QBZ191's core design philosophies are “五高一长” (Five high one long), meaning high accuracy, high reliability, high ergonomics, high molecularity, high safety level, long durability.

4. Picture of the bottom hand guard rail and magazine

1589832105072.png

I don't have much to say about the hand guard, I just thought this is a rare screenshot that shows how it looks.

But the magazine, especially the bottom plate, seems to have a design that is similar to Magpul PMAGs.
1589832912911.png

I think a good feature of PMAG is how easily you can remove and fix a broken magazine spring. Just remove the bottom plate by hand and put in a new spring and you are good, takes no longer than 10 seconds.
For a NATO standard STANAG mag, you gotta use quite a bit of force using a bullet or screw driver to remove the bottom plate.


Overall, I gotta say, this gun is really growing on me. I'll admit, when I first saw it I was a bit disappointed, it looks a bit too "土鳖“ (a meme describing PLA's unfashionable and cheap-looking aesthetics) for me at first glance. I was expecting something like Sig MCX or HK433 for such a hyped up weapon. But as I start to look into its overall design features, I gotta say I really think they got it right this time. The small details of the gun that improves the overall performance and ergonomics are really well-thought out. 208 institute has not disappointed me, and I can't wait for QBZ191, the new LMG and HMG to be fielded in mass quantities.

To think that at the turn of the century, the PLAs were still mostly using Type 81s, fielding Chest Rigs built for Type 56s, wearing 解放鞋(Jie Fang shoes) that were first produced in 1950s. Only 20 year later, they look like this now. It is truly amazing how times change.
1589835337639.png
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Does anyone have the high res tree photos of the long barreled rifle?


Here:
 

ariesjericho

New Member
Registered Member
I was digging through some old footage and pictures of QBZ191 and noticed a few things that I thought was interesting.

1. The debate regarding the magazine release vs bolt release on the right side of the gun.
I know there was some confusion around this, and if the debate has been settled, I apologize for bringing this up again.

This old picture was interesting to me:

View attachment 60051
Notice the gap there, I believe this suggests that the extended flap here is not a part of the magazine release, but a separate part for bolt release.

If this is true, then it is a very well-thought out design, a comparison to VZ58 (picture to the bottom right with 2 circles, yellow circle is magazine release, blue circle is where bolt release mechanism is located, although it is not functional on default VZ58s) shows how much more ergonomic QBZ191 is.

I'm afraid the flap is still a part of the magazine release, see this photo below which is from the same video:
48933857883_79d805b245_k.jpg

and another angle of view:

48936281021_defa102f16_k.jpg
 
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