Power Armor?

Mace there are a number of military types in development that are fairly practical.
Raytheon Sacros
Locheed Martin HULC
Revision Military Prowler

there is also a French unit that is pretty far along

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Here is my thinking for a "Powered" Military.
Army/Marines
a user configurable powered exoskeleton that mates via load harness to body armor and combat pack. Can be configured to be used by Logistics or artillery with a simple load hook, by machine gunners with a steady cam style arm and backpack style high capacity magazine, by EOD with compatible bomb suit, and Marines with external buoyancy system.
accessories might also include a urban / mountain combat power winch to allow ease of climbing, anti tank weapons arm, parachute mounting.

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I would agree that a powered exoskeleton would be the basis for a variety of "power suits" that would be specialized in performing all sorts of tasks.

It would also serve as the basis for power armor. If the exoskeleton can allow the soldier to carry heavier loads and still retain mobility, it would allow the soldier to wear stronger armor as well.

What if we could build armor strong enough to stop 7.62mm rounds without the user feeling more than a sting? That would make urban fights against insurgents much easier. I can see Israel going for something like that. I can see this as "Mark I" power armor.

Future developments would concentrate on making the exoskeleton stronger and more power efficient, which in turn would allow stronger armor. What if we could develop armor that can stop .50 cal machine gun rounds? Coupled with the strength to carry heavy weapons, this would allow infantry to defend themselves against light vehicles such as helicopter gunships and light tanks.

solarz said:

I would agree that a powered exoskeleton would be the basis for a variety of "power suits" that would be specialized in performing all sorts of tasks.

It would also serve as the basis for power armor. If the exoskeleton can allow the soldier to carry heavier loads and still retain mobility, it would allow the soldier to wear stronger armor as well.

What if we could build armor strong enough to stop 7.62mm rounds without the user feeling more than a sting? That would make urban fights against insurgents much easier. I can see Israel going for something like that. I can see this as "Mark I" power armor.

Future developments would concentrate on making the exoskeleton stronger and more power efficient, which in turn would allow stronger armor. What if we could develop armor that can stop .50 cal machine gun rounds? Coupled with the strength to carry heavy weapons, this would allow infantry to defend themselves against light vehicles such as helicopter gunships and light tanks.

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The problem is existing armor piercing ability of 7.62 and 12.7mm round is adaquate for present purposes. But armor piercing potential of 7.62 and 12.7mm rounds are probably much greater than what has presently been widely implemented. Currently it is not economical to implement the full armor piercing potential because there is a lack of need. But once heavy armor become popular on traditional targets of rifle caliber munition, it would become economical to exploit the full armor piercing potential of 7.62 and 12.7mm rifle barrels.

I think 12.7mm sabot or flechette round can probably be made to penetrate 60mm of steel at close range. This means it can take out a WWII Panther tank from the side and the rear. 7.62mm round can also punch through 40mm, which means it can take out almost all light tanks ever built.

Once this ability becomes widely implemented, I think the value of much of the costly and laboriously developed articulaed and powered armor would become heavily discounted.

chuck731 said:

The problem is existing armor piercing ability of 7.62 and 12.7mm round is adaquate for present purposes. But armor piercing potential of 7.62 and 12.7mm rounds are probably much greater than what has presently been widely implemented. Currently it is not economical to implement the full armor piercing potential because there is a lack of need. But once heavy armor become popular on traditional targets of rifle caliber munition, it would become economical to exploit the full armor piercing potential of 7.62 and 12.7mm rifle barrels.

I think 12.7mm sabot or flechette round can probably be made to penetrate 60mm of steel at close range. This means it can take out a WWII Panther tank from the side and the rear.

Once this ability becomes widely implemented, I think the value much of the costly and laboriously developed armor would become much discounted.

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I once saw a documentary detailing how the Taliban were able to manufacture their own weapons and ammunition. So if 7.62mm can be made to more effectively pierce armor, why doesn't the Taliban do it? Surely they can see the value of causing more casualties to American forces?

solarz said:

I once saw a documentary detailing how the Taliban were able to manufacture their own weapons and ammunition. So if 7.62mm can be made to more effectively pierce armor, why doesn't the Taliban do it? Surely they can see the value of causing more casualties to American forces?

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The taliban might be able to manufacture basic ammunition, but I doubt they have either the facilities or the expertise to design and manufacture state of the art ammunition. I would imagine technology needed to make 7.62mm round pierce 40mm of armor would be pretty much the same as that needed to manufacture the best sabot rounds for tank guns.

chuck731 said:

The taliban might be able to manufacture basic ammunition, but I doubt they have either the facilities or the expertise to design and manufacture state of the art ammunition. I would imagine technology needed to make 7.62mm round pierce 40mm of armor would be pretty much the same as that needed to manufacture the best sabot rounds for tank guns.

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Right, so there is still a technological hurdle for low-tech insurgents to overcome improved armor. Also, even if more advanced militaries can counter improved armor, that counter would necessarily be limited. It would be very expensive to replace all 7.62mm rounds, for example, with new sabot rounds, at least in the next 20-30 years. Power armored soldiers might not be invincible, but in the right circumstances they could be quite effective.

I also suspect hyper-penetrating rifle caliber munition would actually be significantly less effective when fired against unarmored troops.

Much of the deadly effect of assault rifle ammunition comes from the fact that they are short and unstable and tend to tumble when hitting soft flesh and this makes a wound cavity much larger than the round itself. So tissue damage and blood loss would be substantial even if the round misses vital organs. I suspect a hyperpenetrating flechette round would simply make a small neat hole in the flesh of an unarmored person, and thus not do a whole lot of damage unless it actually go right through a vital organ.

The Taliban may be able to manufacture conventional ammunition, however optimizing and development of sophisticated types requires a level of industrial sophistication not available to them.
its not a matter of casting a shell casing and bullet heads mixing and refining of powder and primer. Development of advanced powders, high pressure casings, high density cores and advanced aerodynamics.
Germany, the UK, The US, the PRC the RF, France, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, South Korea, Taiwan, South Africa, Turkey, Saudia Arabia, Poland, Canada a few south American nations, and maybe Iran, have the capital and capacity for such a development. But the primitive work shops of the Khyber pass are not up to it.

protection against against some 7.62 threats is real today, and the protection envelope continues to expand, but before we even think about a fifty cal we have to move up the .30 caliber family. Right now we can protect against most 7.62x39mm, some 7.62x51mm, and some 7.62x54mm. That leaves openings for any number of combat rounds still, particularly hotter loads and more specialized calibers like .300WM and .338 magnums. Additionally the protection offered has gaps that mean even with "full coverage" body armor only can protect so much. As was true for our ancestor so to is true for us. Combat soldiers need to not only be protected but also move, and movements mean weak points. Openings around locations like the under arm, elbows, knees, ecta..
in my opinion the next evolution in body armor involves combinations of hard armor, soft flexible armor and non-Newton materials tailored ergonomically to offer maximum mobility and critical protection for vitals. But also designed to be configured to meet only the mission needs.
for example a sniper does not need full body protection, nor would he want it. A artillerymen hardly needs the same level of protection a Vehicle MG gunner would. Paratroopers don't want to be heavyweight infantry, and Marines making a amphibious assault want to be able to swim away from a sinking transport. A combat diver would need different armor from a MP well a soldier on patrol inside the wire is not needed the same as one in Indian country

Building armor that can protect against heavy threats like the 12.7x108mm Round would require a whole new technology base. Smart powered materials. actual synthetic muscle like materials that protect not just the vitals but the whole body. Nano technology stuff.

The technology, except for the power source, exists today. It just needs to be integrated, and a suitable powerpack designed. Protection will likely be in the 7.62 to 12.7 (in critical areas) range, plus, probably most importantly, protection from shrapnel. It would have integral heavy machine guns and possibly light rocket launchers to combat other power suits of the same weight class. It would need to be flexible enough to prone and take advantage of cover and concealment, since the armor protection isn't that high. Its open terrain mobility might be better than foot infantry due to assistive leg actuation. Integrated thermal sensors will make it pretty good for finding troops behind concealment.

When I read the thread title of 'power armor' my first thought was of a science fiction force field! Although that is not so far off anymore with active defense weapons, essentially an active defense weapon is just a conceptually mirrored passive force field. I would think that the combination of the development of hardkill lasers, electromagnetic guns, and the detection and aiming components of active defense weapons would eventually become 'power armor'.

Combined with giant Japanese cartoon (for now) robots of course.

Of course by then someone would come up with a way to defeat lasers, electromagnetic guns, and the detection and aiming systems...