Possible J-13(not ps)

I agree with Deino, the design is just too crumble to be any sthealt fighter...and I think is good, we have seen tons of speculations of the J-xx, so its nice to see models and impressions of the older designs as they represents the chinese aviation history and helps us to understand more about the chinese aircraft design development.

And what comes to moving this thread to anywere, its chinese aviation related so it belongs right here!

Ps. Deino, whats the story with that linedrawing?

Gollevainen said:

I agree with Deino, the design is just too crumble to be any sthealt fighter...and I think is good, we have seen tons of speculations of the J-xx, so its nice to see models and impressions of the older designs as they represents the chinese aviation history and helps us to understand more about the chinese aircraft design development.

And what comes to moving this thread to anywere, its chinese aviation related so it belongs right here!

Ps. Deino, whats the story with that linedrawing?

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They are made by a friend of mine for two articles to be published in the German "Flieger Revue" related to the development of the Chinese military aviation and its industry. The first part of that will - hopefully, as I'm currently just editing the final version - be published in the Summer-issue on 8. June 2007.

Issue one includes the build-up after the foundation of the PRC untill the mid/late 1970s including the history of the J-6 family, the earyl Q-5 and J-7 versions, the J-8I and J-9 for the fighters and the H-5, H-6 developments as the bomber projects H-6I, H-8I and H-8II (albeit very speculative !)

Part two - hopefully from September 2007 - then will continue with the J-7-family, the J-8I and J-8II, the haevy J-10 fighter, the light-weight projects J-11 and J-12 untill the latest projects from the 80s (J-13 ... to Su-27, J-10 and FC-1). For the mud-movers it will include the JH-7 and Q-6 projects.




A similar version in English is later planed tp be published together with Tony Buttler in the "Air Enthusiast" .

Cheers, Deino

Gollevainen said:

And what comes to moving this thread to anywere, its chinese aviation related so it belongs right here!

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What I meant is that the original thread is in fact about Chinese space shuttle program (and I think aikea maybe just mistaken the original article and pic with J-13/14). Anyway, since everybody is talking about J-13/14 now, we can just forget about the original article at least.

Here's a bad pic posted recently of what could be a model of the J-XX. The other pic was posted with it. Anyone care to translate?

Deino said:

I’m still not convinced as – IMO this can’t be a fifth generation design ! Especially as I don’t think that this is a canard nor a 2D TVC like nozzle.

If this is from a display during the mid- or late 80’s it would more fit to be a huge fighter project from the late 1960s to 1970s … and esp. as this is from SAC it could be one configuration of the still secret original J-10, that is sometimes reported to have a VG-design … maybe here in a different configuration with a delta-wing.

[qimg]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6416/strangehugefighterwq6.jpg[/qimg]


Another “hint” for that may be that “hidden” timeline behind the model arrangement … starting with the earlier designs … until the last, that could be a model of the SAC J-13 – the Chinese F-16 equivalent of the 80s !

Deino

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Yes, but the design still has a flattened engine exhaust. When was the first time you have seen such? Its not until the F-117 that such a concept is made public.

Another is the V shaped tail. Again, this is not typical of a 70's design.

The plane obviously has a LERX, again, that is a fairly modern design trait. From above, the wing planform would have a compound delta. That is a very advanced trait, since only the Draken pioneered this, but never got into vogue until the late eighties.

Canted inlets are introduced to the public by the seventies by the F-14 Tomcat and teh MiG-25.

I would have to agree with you that the design may be a bit too unstealthy for a 5th gen fighter, but this design cannot be earlier than the mid to late eighties.

It is just impossible for it to be on late sixties and seventies, considering the advanced design features relative to those years.

AssassinsMace said:

Here's a bad pic posted recently of what could be a model of the J-XX. The other pic was posted with it. Anyone care to translate?

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these pic I shaw in chinese internet ,saying just some regullar plane project in office. the red cloth block will take off during meeting. the article just say some type of the plane, not say Jxx - they want you take a guess.
if any one is engineer and know chinese, he will see the letters in the blackboard and will guess what kind the project is.
also I guess this pic was some fighter's project in the past not for future.

these are some military fans art model webpage, any one can take these model picture put togather with some different articles if they want.

crobato said:

Yes, but the design still has a flattened engine exhaust. When was the first time you have seen such? Its not until the F-117 that such a concept is made public.

Another is the V shaped tail. Again, this is not typical of a 70's design.

The plane obviously has a LERX, again, that is a fairly modern design trait. From above, the wing planform would have a compound delta. That is a very advanced trait, since only the Draken pioneered this, but never got into vogue until the late eighties.

Canted inlets are introduced to the public by the seventies by the F-14 Tomcat and teh MiG-25.

I would have to agree with you that the design may be a bit too unstealthy for a 5th gen fighter, but this design cannot be earlier than the mid to late eighties.

It is just impossible for it to be on late sixties and seventies, considering the advanced design features relative to those years.

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Sorry, but once again I have to disagree as I don't see a LERX, nor a compound delta, nor a flat exhast with any IR-reductions.

For me it's nothing more than a typical late 60' - 70s heavy fighter concept very similar in appearance to the CF-105 and MiG-25 with huge boxy intakes, a cockpit with very limited visibility, a huge delta, no LERX and two large exhausts below the wing's trailing edge as can be seen from the front view (see post 19). Especially as You mention the MiG-25 - a design of the 60s – with its two outward canted fins is more a pro for my theory than a hint for a late to mid 80s concept.
Additional this exhibition is said to have taken place during the mid 80s … and I can’t believe that an actual design – if it were a 80s design – would have shown there in publicity.

Therefore I still think it’s just a huge fighter that would fit nicely into the mystery SAC J-10 concept timeframe … or it’s just once again my personal wishful-thinking !