PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread
- Thread starter crobato
- Start date
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
well, that's pretty clear, what are you trying to say?
well, that's pretty clear, what are you trying to say?
you mean the one that was conducting sea tests? That one was still a yuan, this newly launched one is something completely different.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
the first set pictures are of the new modified Yuan and the second set is from a previous launching of a Song that was comparing it to.
the first set pictures are of the new modified Yuan and the second set is from a previous launching of a Song that was comparing it to.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
I got one picture of the original Yuan above water. but the angle of viewpoint is from the front, which makes comparisons to the new pictures impossible. It does appear outright thicker and rounder than the Songs though. The artworks I've seen done on the Yuan, even on the first one shows the sail already thicker than the Song's, so it forms more of an "eye" than a slit if viewed above. Note the GE picture I've posted the other time.
The extent that the horizontal elevator on the Yuans is much longer than the Song tells you that the submerged displacement is much greater, and you need the large fins to get enough control. This one looks even bigger than the Kilo's.
I got one picture of the original Yuan above water. but the angle of viewpoint is from the front, which makes comparisons to the new pictures impossible. It does appear outright thicker and rounder than the Songs though. The artworks I've seen done on the Yuan, even on the first one shows the sail already thicker than the Song's, so it forms more of an "eye" than a slit if viewed above. Note the GE picture I've posted the other time.
The extent that the horizontal elevator on the Yuans is much longer than the Song tells you that the submerged displacement is much greater, and you need the large fins to get enough control. This one looks even bigger than the Kilo's.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
There was a Chinese made chart that showed all of the PLAN sub types, and this chart called the new Yuan 039B.
I don't know if the chart is valid or not. Perhaps for now we may call it 039B.
I don't know how many actual Yuans are in the water. There maybe more. Go back to the submarine thread around September and there was already one new Yuan in the water next to the floating dock.
But this was back in September, not December when we saw the picture of the two Yuans in the floating dock in Wuhan. The Yuan was already low in the water in that picture last September, suggesting that at the time the picture was taken, the sub was nearly fully fitted out. Is this sub one of the Yuans that would appear in the picture in December?
As you can see from the December picture, the Yuan already on the water didn't stay long and moved downriver to a naval base. This leaves me a question if the Yuan spotted in September may have already moved down the river before the two Yuans appeared on the Wuhan floating dock in December.
In the shipping industry, they don't like ships to stay too long on the dock because they want to make the space available for new ship construction. Thus a ship that is nearly or about to be finished is expected to be leaving soon, in order to make way for new arrivals. Time is money in this industry and a ship staying too long costs money. Thus my feeling is that the sub seen in September should have left the dock and moved downriver, long before December came and to make room for others.
I can go through my collection of pictures, and there seems to be issues that point to a credible possibility---but I must also say, not direct evidence---that there may have been more Yuans between the first one seen in 2004, and the ones that were seen now.
There was a Chinese made chart that showed all of the PLAN sub types, and this chart called the new Yuan 039B.
I don't know if the chart is valid or not. Perhaps for now we may call it 039B.
I don't know how many actual Yuans are in the water. There maybe more. Go back to the submarine thread around September and there was already one new Yuan in the water next to the floating dock.
But this was back in September, not December when we saw the picture of the two Yuans in the floating dock in Wuhan. The Yuan was already low in the water in that picture last September, suggesting that at the time the picture was taken, the sub was nearly fully fitted out. Is this sub one of the Yuans that would appear in the picture in December?
As you can see from the December picture, the Yuan already on the water didn't stay long and moved downriver to a naval base. This leaves me a question if the Yuan spotted in September may have already moved down the river before the two Yuans appeared on the Wuhan floating dock in December.
In the shipping industry, they don't like ships to stay too long on the dock because they want to make the space available for new ship construction. Thus a ship that is nearly or about to be finished is expected to be leaving soon, in order to make way for new arrivals. Time is money in this industry and a ship staying too long costs money. Thus my feeling is that the sub seen in September should have left the dock and moved downriver, long before December came and to make room for others.
I can go through my collection of pictures, and there seems to be issues that point to a credible possibility---but I must also say, not direct evidence---that there may have been more Yuans between the first one seen in 2004, and the ones that were seen now.
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
What Strategypage has said about the PLAN sub patrols, seems to be in contradiction with this report from China Brief. First paragraph only shown.
China Brief
Volume 8, Issue 3 (January 31, 2008)
China's Expanding Naval Presence Troubles Neighbors
By Russell Hsiao
In an interview with Japanese newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun, Taiwan’s Vice-Minister for Defense Ko Chen-heng reportedly stated that Chinese warships have stepped up naval activities along the “first island chain” (diyidaolian) with five to six recorded incursions in the past two years (China Times, January 24; Yomiuri Shimbun, January 24). He added that the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has expanded its area of operations into the high seas, and its submarines are maneuvering in areas off the eastern and southern coasts of Taiwan. Vice-Minister Ko expects that the PLAN will extend its maritime operation to the Bashi Channel, which is a critical communication bottleneck located between Y'Ami Island of the Philippines and Orchid Island of Taiwan. In response to China’s expansive naval activities, which Taiwan claims demonstrate Beijing’s plan to make the Taiwan Strait an “internal sea of China,” Vice-Minister Ko underscored the need for Taiwan to deploy its self-developed cruise missiles, which indirectly reference the Hsiung-feng missiles, to deter this perceived growing Chinese threat (China Times, January 24; Yomiuri Shimbun, January 24).
What Strategypage has said about the PLAN sub patrols, seems to be in contradiction with this report from China Brief. First paragraph only shown.
China Brief
Volume 8, Issue 3 (January 31, 2008)
China's Expanding Naval Presence Troubles Neighbors
By Russell Hsiao
In an interview with Japanese newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun, Taiwan’s Vice-Minister for Defense Ko Chen-heng reportedly stated that Chinese warships have stepped up naval activities along the “first island chain” (diyidaolian) with five to six recorded incursions in the past two years (China Times, January 24; Yomiuri Shimbun, January 24). He added that the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has expanded its area of operations into the high seas, and its submarines are maneuvering in areas off the eastern and southern coasts of Taiwan. Vice-Minister Ko expects that the PLAN will extend its maritime operation to the Bashi Channel, which is a critical communication bottleneck located between Y'Ami Island of the Philippines and Orchid Island of Taiwan. In response to China’s expansive naval activities, which Taiwan claims demonstrate Beijing’s plan to make the Taiwan Strait an “internal sea of China,” Vice-Minister Ko underscored the need for Taiwan to deploy its self-developed cruise missiles, which indirectly reference the Hsiung-feng missiles, to deter this perceived growing Chinese threat (China Times, January 24; Yomiuri Shimbun, January 24).
maozedong
Banned Idiot
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II
the article from the reporter of the magazine:
.Global Network Global Times: Federation of American Scientists Web site published Kelishitaisen Hans • M • The article said that in 2007 China conducted a total of six submarine combat readiness of the voyage patrol, in 2006 more than four times.
2007 voyage of the Chinese submarine patrols and the number of those in 2000 compared to the year is six times. Since 1981, China's submarine combat readiness voyage more than five times the number of patrol only in 2007 and 2000.
The article said that in the United States, "the Freedom of Information Act," within the framework of the Federation of American Scientists from the United States Navy have the latest information shows that, so far, China's ballistic missile nuclear submarines have not previously participated in this kind of "deterrence" patrols.
2007 Chinese submarine patrols of the six, only the United States submarine force voyage patrols a small part of the United States each year submarine patrols are over 100.
The article then explained that the United States will patrol submarine voyage comparisons are unrealistic, because the task of different navies of the two countries, China has no overseas military "responsibility" of China's submarine force is almost entirely a defensive type of coastal waters, and the United States submarine force has been alone or with allies in the implementation of forward deployment tasks
China submarine combat readiness of the voyage with the Russian patrol more appropriate comparison with the former Soviet Union during the Cold War period compared to the forefront of the Russian submarine patrols substantially reduced its 2007 voyage submarine patrol combat readiness is seven times.
With historical perspective, and in the 1990s compared to that in the 21st century's first decade, in 2007 the 6th Chinese submarine voyage patrol, and maintain a slight increase.
Figures out with a more intuitive: In the 1990s, the Chinese submarine voyage is patrolling the average annual number of 1.2, and the date from after 2000, China's submarine voyage, the average number of patrols is 3.4.
Navy estimates that China will build five JIN class(Type 094) Submarine
China's first ballistic missile submarines a XIA class (Type 092) was launched after 25 years, China conducted its first combat readiness voyage deterrent patrol, the latest data show that XIA class submarines and two Jin class (Type 094, the first vessel launched in 2004 ) did not participate in the ballistic missile nuclear submarines patrol the combat readiness voyage.
Bring JL-1 single warhead ballistic missiles for the XIA class submarine research and development has been test-fired twice, but not entirely satisfactory, therefore, the past few years, American intelligence agencies will be named as the CSS-NX 3 (X behalf of the meaning of test).
Jin class each ship (094-type) with 12 submarine launched ballistic tube can launch JL-2 submarine-launched ballistic missiles, according to American intelligence agencies estimate that such a missile carrying a warhead.
The article speculated that the Chinese ballistic missile submarines future mandate is regional.
According to American intelligence agencies speculated that the JL-2 missile range of more than 8,000 kilometers, if launched from China's territorial waters, the United States will deal a blow to Hawaii and Alaska, but can not hit the United States.
Assume that the Chinese nuclear submarine sailed out of port, lurking across the United States attack submarines, they must also between South Korea and Japan through the narrow Strait, the waters in the Sea of Japan after the submarine JL-2 missile was capable of hitting the western United States city of Seattle.
Bohai Bay is China's deployment of ballistic missile submarines may be regional, because when the enemy's attack submarines by the attack, where you can provide better protection, where JL-2 missile can against the United States in Guam, Hawaii and Alaska, and Russia and India.
The article said that there are rumors that China's Hainan Island is the construction of a new submarine base, and plans to it as some of the ballistic missile submarine home port. The base's underground facilities have the same sea, and such facilities similar to the submarine base near Qingdao, the base of the summer class submarine home port.
From Hainan base, JL-2 whose range covers Guam, India, and Russia most, but not including Hawaii.
According to Navy estimates, China will build five (Type 094) submarines, in order to maintain a more robust military presence offshore.
The article mentioned that although China submarine combat readiness voyage patrols to the highest value, but in recent years the Chinese submarine into Japanese territorial waters, China submarine approaching the United States aircraft carrier, in 2007 did not appear.
As for China's submarine patrol rebound in the number of what it means is, it is unclear.
From the 1981 and retire in 2005 is the 4th Chinese submarine voyage did not patrol the year, the other three years are 1982, 1990 and 1993, although, during this period, China has several levels of more advanced submarines put into service.
Voyage of combat readiness and the number of patrols could not explain, in the 6th Chinese submarine patrols during what has been done, they may just stay away from the coast for navigation, testing navigational equipment, or test communication with the base, and may include more advanced tactical action take part in patrols, perhaps six different submarines, it may just two.
Compared to China more than 50 submarines and scale operator, 2007 6th patrol sailing voyage, does not provide a lot of tactical action experience.
If China really plans to expand the coverage of the submarine force, within the next two years, the Chinese submarine's voyage will continue to increase the number of patrols, which can be seen.
China submarine patrols in 1981-2007, the number is 55, which shows that China's submarine force is still a coastal defense force, at least for now is the case. (Zhang Jun)
the article from the reporter of the magazine:
.Global Network Global Times: Federation of American Scientists Web site published Kelishitaisen Hans • M • The article said that in 2007 China conducted a total of six submarine combat readiness of the voyage patrol, in 2006 more than four times.
2007 voyage of the Chinese submarine patrols and the number of those in 2000 compared to the year is six times. Since 1981, China's submarine combat readiness voyage more than five times the number of patrol only in 2007 and 2000.
The article said that in the United States, "the Freedom of Information Act," within the framework of the Federation of American Scientists from the United States Navy have the latest information shows that, so far, China's ballistic missile nuclear submarines have not previously participated in this kind of "deterrence" patrols.
2007 Chinese submarine patrols of the six, only the United States submarine force voyage patrols a small part of the United States each year submarine patrols are over 100.
The article then explained that the United States will patrol submarine voyage comparisons are unrealistic, because the task of different navies of the two countries, China has no overseas military "responsibility" of China's submarine force is almost entirely a defensive type of coastal waters, and the United States submarine force has been alone or with allies in the implementation of forward deployment tasks
China submarine combat readiness of the voyage with the Russian patrol more appropriate comparison with the former Soviet Union during the Cold War period compared to the forefront of the Russian submarine patrols substantially reduced its 2007 voyage submarine patrol combat readiness is seven times.
With historical perspective, and in the 1990s compared to that in the 21st century's first decade, in 2007 the 6th Chinese submarine voyage patrol, and maintain a slight increase.
Figures out with a more intuitive: In the 1990s, the Chinese submarine voyage is patrolling the average annual number of 1.2, and the date from after 2000, China's submarine voyage, the average number of patrols is 3.4.
Navy estimates that China will build five JIN class(Type 094) Submarine
China's first ballistic missile submarines a XIA class (Type 092) was launched after 25 years, China conducted its first combat readiness voyage deterrent patrol, the latest data show that XIA class submarines and two Jin class (Type 094, the first vessel launched in 2004 ) did not participate in the ballistic missile nuclear submarines patrol the combat readiness voyage.
Bring JL-1 single warhead ballistic missiles for the XIA class submarine research and development has been test-fired twice, but not entirely satisfactory, therefore, the past few years, American intelligence agencies will be named as the CSS-NX 3 (X behalf of the meaning of test).
Jin class each ship (094-type) with 12 submarine launched ballistic tube can launch JL-2 submarine-launched ballistic missiles, according to American intelligence agencies estimate that such a missile carrying a warhead.
The article speculated that the Chinese ballistic missile submarines future mandate is regional.
According to American intelligence agencies speculated that the JL-2 missile range of more than 8,000 kilometers, if launched from China's territorial waters, the United States will deal a blow to Hawaii and Alaska, but can not hit the United States.
Assume that the Chinese nuclear submarine sailed out of port, lurking across the United States attack submarines, they must also between South Korea and Japan through the narrow Strait, the waters in the Sea of Japan after the submarine JL-2 missile was capable of hitting the western United States city of Seattle.
Bohai Bay is China's deployment of ballistic missile submarines may be regional, because when the enemy's attack submarines by the attack, where you can provide better protection, where JL-2 missile can against the United States in Guam, Hawaii and Alaska, and Russia and India.
The article said that there are rumors that China's Hainan Island is the construction of a new submarine base, and plans to it as some of the ballistic missile submarine home port. The base's underground facilities have the same sea, and such facilities similar to the submarine base near Qingdao, the base of the summer class submarine home port.
From Hainan base, JL-2 whose range covers Guam, India, and Russia most, but not including Hawaii.
According to Navy estimates, China will build five (Type 094) submarines, in order to maintain a more robust military presence offshore.
The article mentioned that although China submarine combat readiness voyage patrols to the highest value, but in recent years the Chinese submarine into Japanese territorial waters, China submarine approaching the United States aircraft carrier, in 2007 did not appear.
As for China's submarine patrol rebound in the number of what it means is, it is unclear.
From the 1981 and retire in 2005 is the 4th Chinese submarine voyage did not patrol the year, the other three years are 1982, 1990 and 1993, although, during this period, China has several levels of more advanced submarines put into service.
Voyage of combat readiness and the number of patrols could not explain, in the 6th Chinese submarine patrols during what has been done, they may just stay away from the coast for navigation, testing navigational equipment, or test communication with the base, and may include more advanced tactical action take part in patrols, perhaps six different submarines, it may just two.
Compared to China more than 50 submarines and scale operator, 2007 6th patrol sailing voyage, does not provide a lot of tactical action experience.
If China really plans to expand the coverage of the submarine force, within the next two years, the Chinese submarine's voyage will continue to increase the number of patrols, which can be seen.
China submarine patrols in 1981-2007, the number is 55, which shows that China's submarine force is still a coastal defense force, at least for now is the case. (Zhang Jun)
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