PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The article says 22 unknown submarine contacts made by the Indian and US navies. You'd figure if the taunting of how superior US subs are compared to Chinese and even claimed that US subs (including Sea Wolf) are just sitting off of China's sub bases collecting data on noisy Chinese subs... wouldn't they definitely know they're Chinese subs instead of concluding through deduction?

They're hardly going to come out and say it though.



But this is encouraging news regardless of how detected the PLAN subs were. It just proves that SSNs have been making long endurance patrols into the Indian ocean. There's been speculation for a few years now, but nice to get black and white confirmation.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Why not come out and say it? It has been widely put out there that that the US has been collecting data and tracking Chinese sub activity. Whether true or not, the whole point is to tell China as a deterrence. Why not definitely confirm they were Chinese subs if they're all about deterrence.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The article says 22 unknown submarine contacts made by the Indian and US navies. How would they know that the US was detecting subs? The US would've had to told them and if they did why not say they definitely know instead of suspecting it? You'd figure if the taunting of how superior US subs are compared to Chinese and even claimed that US subs (including Sea Wolf) are just sitting off of China's sub bases collecting data on noisy Chinese subs... wouldn't they definitely know they're Chinese subs instead of concluding through deduction? One of my points if you didn't get is the possibility whole thing is a lie hence why I can bring up so many suspicious questions.

Its called blind man's bluff for a reason. Conferming it totally would be making the chinese navy paranoid about shadows. Denial would make the locals convinced it was American or think the US was inept. Being passive aggressive however allows the right amount of both. Keeps everyone at working as normal.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Like I said, it's already put out there that the US Navy is tracking all Chinese sub activity especially nuclear subs which they say are the ones they're detecting. So if they don't know here without absolutely certainty, the US is made out to be inept. That's of course if the whole story isn't a lie in the first place. There's really no point to be coy. The Sri Lankans don't seemed to be bothered by the news. The only country that would is India and they're the ones putting this story out there. Maybe this is a ploy to get Western navies to come and help defend India. From what? Chinese naval activity navigating in international waters. Is there some gross violation that a Chinese sub is travelling through international waters. And what are US subs parked off of Chinese sub bases doing then?

 

[kroko]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Headlines Today has exclusive access to a report from the Indian Navy to the Defence Ministry that says 22 unknown submarine contacts were detected by Indian and U.S sonar in the Indian Ocean.

First, how did this news source got acess to classified USN information? i doubt that the USN would share this info with the indian navy.
Second, does anyone believe that the US doesnt know already all the chinese sub signatures?

I agree with assasins mace on this. I give very little credibility to this report.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Mace as China is a rising Star so to is India. The Indian population larger then the Chinese and its military is growing fairly quickly. Both have massive economic power potential and are growing markets its projected that five minutes after China makes global super power India does the same.
Both have claims to islands in the Indian ocean and South China Sea as well as on land. claims against each other. As can be seen in the East China Sea the PRC is starting to push its territory claims, now it does not take a wiseman to see the possibility of the PLAN pushing its claims into the South China Sea and Indian ocean. The PRC also is a big allie of Pakistan who is the long time foe of India. The PRC might not like the US in the sea of China could you imagine what the Indians feel about China?
Two super powers with massive populations almost mirror images of each other in terms of development, rivals in economic placement and potential, one acting as a shelter for a man the other paints as a villain (the dalli lamba), land locked to each other. Really is it any wonder they are worried about the PLAN poking around?

 

[AssassinsMace]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

What islands does China claim in the Indian Ocean?

Sorry to tell you but China has trade links that require it to go through the Indian Ocean. Just as the US navy wants to make sure the free flow of trade travels through the South China Sea, so does China and regard to the Indian Ocean. Again not a crime that Chinese naval vessels travel through international waters.

 

[Quickie]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Mace as China is a rising Star so to is India. The Indian population larger then the Chinese and its military is growing fairly quickly. Both have massive economic power potential and are growing markets its projected that five minutes after China makes global super power India does the same.
Both have claims to islands in the Indian ocean and South China Sea as well as on land. claims against each other. As can be seen in the East China Sea the PRC is starting to push its territory claims, now it does not take a wiseman to see the possibility of the PLAN pushing its claims into the South China Sea and Indian ocean. The PRC also is a big allie of Pakistan who is the long time foe of India. The PRC might not like the US in the sea of China could you imagine what the Indians feel about China?
Two super powers with massive populations almost mirror images of each other in terms of development, rivals in economic placement and potential, one acting as a shelter for a man the other paints as a villain (the dalli lamba), land locked to each other. Really is it any wonder they are worried about the PLAN poking around?

Indian population is growing fast but China still has the largest population in the world.

China has no claims to islands in the Indian Ocean and India has no claims to islands in the South China Sea.

 

[plawolf]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Mace as China is a rising Star so to is India. The Indian population larger then the Chinese and its military is growing fairly quickly. Both have massive economic power potential and are growing markets its projected that five minutes after China makes global super power India does the same.

The only people projecting India to become a superpower are doing it more out of hope than expectation. India certainly has the potential, but in terms of realising that potential, it is a hell of a lot more than '5 minutes' behind China in every way measurable.

The only thing India is almost certain to overtake China in anytime soon is in total population. But with poor literacy and the majority of the population growth being accounted for by the poor, it is highly questionable if this population boom will turn out to be a boon or a curse for India and its superpower aspirations.

Both have claims to islands in the Indian ocean and South China Sea as well as on land. claims against each other.

Say what now? What territories does China claim in the Indian Ocean and India claim in the South China Sea?

 

[Franklin]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Mace as China is a rising Star so to is India. The Indian population larger then the Chinese and its military is growing fairly quickly. Both have massive economic power potential and are growing markets its projected that five minutes after China makes global super power India does the same.
Both have claims to islands in the Indian ocean and South China Sea as well as on land. claims against each other. As can be seen in the East China Sea the PRC is starting to push its territory claims, now it does not take a wiseman to see the possibility of the PLAN pushing its claims into the South China Sea and Indian ocean. The PRC also is a big allie of Pakistan who is the long time foe of India. The PRC might not like the US in the sea of China could you imagine what the Indians feel about China?
Two super powers with massive populations almost mirror images of each other in terms of development, rivals in economic placement and potential, one acting as a shelter for a man the other paints as a villain (the dalli lamba), land locked to each other. Really is it any wonder they are worried about the PLAN poking around?

China's GDP for 2012 is more than 4 times larger than that of India's 8250 billion $ vs 1947 billion $. But what i like to know is what is the status of India's industries. China's current naval expantion for instance is made possible by a competitive ship building industry and a formidable electronics industry. Does India have a similar track record in building these kinds of industries ? Albeit from a lower bases, but i mean do you guys see India going down the same path as China in these area's ? If so they could close in on China. Don't forget that the Americans has been quite dismissive about China's capabilities for a long time, so China should not repeat the same mistakes and underestimate India.