PLAN: submarines or aircraft carrier? (Closed)

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Baibar of Jalat

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what hostile nation, barring the USA, have the political/military/economic capability to blockade the malacca straits?? that nation would become overnight into an international outlaw, even subject to use of force. Sorry, but i think thats just nonsense.

I visit Indian defence blogs daily, IN is tasked to block Chinese trade routes, if war broke out. I think Malacca straits wont be blocked but the oceans around it (indian ocean). If war happens it means International law has failed thus the countries involved will ignore parts of law that impedes them from victory.
 

tphuang

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what hostile nation, barring the USA, have the political/military/economic capability to blockade the malacca straits?? that nation would become overnight into an international outlaw, even subject to use of force. Sorry, but i think thats just nonsense.

they don't have the political/economic capability, but a lot of countries there have military capability to do it. Singapore, Malaysia and Australia can all do it. As for becoming an international outlaw, nobody is debating that. Anytime any country attacks another unilaterally, it will become an outlaw, but China still has to defend against that. You are basically arguing because another country attacking you would make them bear international pressure, that means you don't need to defend yourself.
 

rhino123

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they don't have the political/economic capability, but a lot of countries there have military capability to do it. Singapore, Malaysia and Australia can all do it. As for becoming an international outlaw, nobody is debating that. Anytime any country attacks another unilaterally, it will become an outlaw, but China still has to defend against that. You are basically arguing because another country attacking you would make them bear international pressure, that means you don't need to defend yourself.

Theoretically, what you have said is true. However in actual case, it would be very difficult to do a blockage in the strait of Malacca due to the case that if such a blockage was being exercise, China would not be the only country affected. Singapore and Malaysia and the whole of ASEAN will be affected.

These countries will not sit idling by to allow that to happen. And if it was these countries that are doing the blockage, China do not need carriers or submarines to make sure that they sent their boats back... she had enough tactical missiles to ensure that the ASEAN countries do not play around with her.

Of course if it was the USN that is playing the blockage, I doubt very much that ASEAN would or could do much, anyway, USN do not need that type of strategy to get any country in this world to their knee.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
they don't have the political/economic capability, but a lot of countries there have military capability to do it. Singapore, Malaysia and Australia can all do it. As for becoming an international outlaw, nobody is debating that. Anytime any country attacks another unilaterally, it will become an outlaw, but China still has to defend against that. You are basically arguing because another country attacking you would make them bear international pressure, that means you don't need to defend yourself.

Would Singapore, Malaysia or Australia be able to shut off Chinese commerce without American approval? The USN takes freedom of the seas very seriously.
 

tphuang

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The issue is not whether they will do it, but whether or not they can do it. PLAN is very paranoid. At the moment, it has to depend on USN and the world community to protect freedom of seas in troubled spots like Malacca and Hormuz. But China is becoming a big boy now, it needs to be able to defend its own interest in case international relations suddenly take unfortunate twists.
 

montyp165

Senior Member
The issue is not whether they will do it, but whether or not they can do it. PLAN is very paranoid. At the moment, it has to depend on USN and the world community to protect freedom of seas in troubled spots like Malacca and Hormuz. But China is becoming a big boy now, it needs to be able to defend its own interest in case international relations suddenly take unfortunate twists.

Not only that, in many instances other states are overstretched and can't necessarily provide sufficient protection of commerce in certain areas, so the PLAN can play a major role in plugging such gaps in coverage.
 

rhino123

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What both monty and Tphuang said is true to a certain extend. But the issue is not just whether a country will do or can do. The main thing is, we have to look at the thing as a bigger picture. Indeed aircraft carrier is a good thing to have, and as argued so many times in this discussion, the need of this ship.

But first we have to look at the most likely adversary or country which have the capability to block the strait of malacca. Singapore? Malaysia? Australia? they are considered neighbours to China. If the strait is being block by any of this country and that the whole of ASEAN are too overstretch to do anything, then what will China's reaction be. Sent her CBG over? Took a couple of days or weeks to get to the strait of Malacca, not to mention the time needed to prepare for that assault. The manpower needed, the cost of that operation, the logistical nightmare, etc, etc.

Or do they simply press buttons and let loose a barriage of tactical missiles to hit these countries to tell them that she meant business?
 
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maozedong

Banned Idiot
What both monty and Tphuang said is true to a certain extend. But the issue is not just whether a country will do or can do. The main thing is, we have to look at the thing as a bigger picture. Indeed aircraft carrier is a good thing to have, and as argued so many times in this discussion, the need of this ship.

But first we have to look at the most likely adversary or country which have the capability to block the strait of malacca. Singapore? Malaysia? Australia? they are considered neighbours to China. If the strait is being block by any of this country and that the whole of ASEAN are too overstretch to do anything, then what will China's reaction be. Sent her CBG over? Took a couple of days or weeks to get to the strait of Malacca, not to mention the time needed to prepare for that assault. The manpower needed, the cost of that operation, the logistical nightmare, etc, etc.

Or do they simply press buttons and let loose a barriage of tactical missiles to hit these countries to tell them that she meant business?

If it was the USN that is blocking the straits, do you think China's CBG can do anything about it?

Let me tell you, the U.S is a paper tiger, which had toward decay, simply because it has 11 aircraft carriers, we would not be able to catch up with it?
In 1964, China successfully tested it's first atomic bomb,the U.S threatened will destroy China's neclear test base, if Mao Zedong thinking like you said: the U.S had so many nuclear weapons, the U.S had ICBMs, the U.S there were many military bases around China, the U.S could use nuclear weapons destroy the whole China, while China Only an atomic bomb, no missile can attack the U.S, there is no aircraft capable of carrying atomic bombs to the U.S, while the Q-5 attacker can not attack the U.S, like you guy said, we should not develop nuclear weapon, because this is useless.
but, how about today? who can threaten China with nuclear weapon?
China is rising like a red sun, PLAN will has many CBG, if 2020 not, how about 2030, latest 2040, PLAN will becom world navy power, in that time, you look backward PLAN development, just like we look backward 1964 China first atomic bomb.
 

rhino123

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I did not mean my post to be against anybody and was so sorry that it offend some of the members of this forum. And I really have no intention of getting my post to become something like a US vs China kind of crap.

For that I am sorry, especially to Mao from the above post thus I have cut away my last statement. Sorry again.

However what I really wanted to say is that we have to carefully see what is the foes that are blocking the Strait of Malacca. Instead of sending a CBG (which I have no doubt China could and will build), she had better alternatives, like her missiles.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Gents you are getting to heated up over a simple discussion which should be..Should China concentrate on better subs or build up a CV force?

I'm closing this thread for 24 hours to allow for a cooling off and in the hope that the discussion turns back to the title of this thread.


bd popeye super moderator
 
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