PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

It really amazes me .... the skill and technology of Chinese construction/reclamation ... should be no.1 in the world.

Nobody expected the Chinese would do that ... this is really amazing, super cost effective
Not sure how much would cost to reclamation the island, I'd say total would be ~US$500M, including buildings and facilities .... very very cheap even as high as $1B

unsinkable carrier ... and no operational/maintenance cost of a carrier

Do you know what is the final plan for the island would be?

antiterror13 said:

It really amazes me .... the skill and technology of Chinese construction/reclamation ... should be no.1 in the world.

Nobody expected the Chinese would do that ... this is really amazing, super cost effective
Not sure how much would cost to reclamation the island, I'd say total would be ~US$500M, including buildings and facilities .... very very cheap even as high as $1B

unsinkable carrier ... and no operational/maintenance cost of a carrier

Do you know what is the final plan for the island would be?

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I am sorry, but carrier moved and so it is harder to hit and carrier can be anywhere in the ocean, an island, no matter how well it was reclaimed is still an island and is unmovable and so it came with all the inherited problems, such as all facilities and personnel on top of that island are seating ducks when enemy strikes.

That said, those islands are much needed by the Chinese, although they are vulnerable, but their presence could help the Chinese extend their power out, also these islands can become ports for Chinese ships and boats.

no need to say sorry, its ok we have different opinions or views ... no probs.

China is no USA, doesn't need carriers everywhere ... imagine having facilities there, including harbour and airstrip that can facilitate 056/A, 054A and 052C/D and 093 SSN, etc ... imagine how much effective against Vietnam, the Philippine, etc compare to operate it in Hainan island. Imagine China would be able to "attack" Vietnam/Philippine from many directions, including from this "reefs"

rhino123 said:

I am sorry, but carrier moved and so it is harder to hit and carrier can be anywhere in the ocean, an island, no matter how well it was reclaimed is still an island and is unmovable and so it came with all the inherited problems, such as all facilities and personnel on top of that island are seating ducks when enemy strikes.

That said, those islands are much needed by the Chinese, although they are vulnerable, but their presence could help the Chinese extend their power out, also these islands can become ports for Chinese ships and boats.

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In today's world of satellite imaging, UAVs, etc etc, a carrier's major advantage is actually the portability of sovereign territory, to be able to bring your assets to a part of the world where you may have no other bases. Is it harder to hit because it can move at 30+ knots tops? Sure. That's an advantage but not really that much more than an island with the same defensive systems. And to add layered defense, what if all these reclaimed islands form a coordinated defensive system? Or what if you had destroyers in the vicinity acting almost like a CBG?

You are right an island is immovable, but it's also unsinkable. Pros and cons. For the current agenda which is to maintain constant presence without a foreseeable battle, just a lot of saber rattling, the island makes sense.

antiterror13 said:

It really amazes me .... the skill and technology of Chinese construction/reclamation ... should be no.1 in the world.

Nobody expected the Chinese would do that ... this is really amazing, super cost effective
Not sure how much would cost to reclamation the island, I'd say total would be ~US$500M, including buildings and facilities .... very very cheap even as high as $1B

unsinkable carrier ... and no operational/maintenance cost of a carrier

Do you know what is the final plan for the island would be?

Click to expand...

I remember that around 1990 an island was built in Japan to establish a new airport that compressed much more than expected ( ). No doubt the Chinese island designers took a hard look at this valuable experience.

joshuatree said:

In today's world of satellite imaging, UAVs, etc etc, a carrier's major advantage is actually the portability of sovereign territory, to be able to bring your assets to a part of the world where you may have no other bases. Is it harder to hit because it can move at 30+ knots tops? Sure. That's an advantage but not really that much more than an island with the same defensive systems. And to add layered defense, what if all these reclaimed islands form a coordinated defensive system? Or what if you had destroyers in the vicinity acting almost like a CBG?

You are right an island is immovable, but it's also unsinkable. Pros and cons. For the current agenda which is to maintain constant presence without a foreseeable battle, just a lot of saber rattling, the island makes sense.

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I have to disagree with your assessment completely. Yes, a carriers and a small island have their own distinct advantages and disadvantages however you cannot compare them both because they are totally different forms of assets either tactically or operationally. It's not a one is better than the other kind of comparison.

And even with satellite coverage it is still darn near impossible to locate a carrier on the ocean that doesn't want to be found.

I do however agree with your last sentence. An island or islands at this point in time makes sense for the PRC to establish their presence in the SCS as well as to provide intelligence gathering and logistical support to the fleet.

kwaigonegin said:

And even with satellite coverage it is still darn near impossible to locate a carrier on the ocean that doesn't want to be found.

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Find the birds, and one will find the carrier. All fighters has to come back to the carrier sooner or later. Infrared sensors and satellite images and drones are getting more and more high tech. One doesn't necessary has to look for the carrier out right but rather track the fighters to traced the vicinity before it reaches the island.

Equation said:

Find the birds, and one will find the carrier. All fighters has to come back to the carrier sooner or later. Infrared sensors and satellite images and drones are getting more and more high tech. One doesn't necessary has to look for the carrier out right but rather track the fighters to traced the vicinity before it reaches the island.

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Not necessary. It doesn't,t matter how high tech or sensitive the sats are you still have to know where to point them in real time and that will always be the limitations of sats. U can watch an island 24/7 because u know exactly where it is... On an object where you have no idea where it is, well u can't. Now once you locate it then yes you can track it but that's already after the fact. The ocean is very big my friend. Even a supercarrier is nothing but a grain of sand.

kwaigonegin said:

Not necessary. It doesn't,t matter how high tech or sensitive the sats are you still have to know where to point them in real time and that will always be the limitations of sats. U can watch an island 24/7 because u know exactly where it is... On an object where you have no idea where it is, well u can't. Now once you locate it then yes you can track it but that's already after the fact. The ocean is very big my friend. Even a supercarrier is nothing but a grain of sand.

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True, but an island base can have a larger radar and air craft to search it in greater range when scouting the area. Once contact is made it can alert the command center. The carrier force projection is only as good as its fighters range. It needed that element of surprise and initiative to be successful.

kwaigonegin said:

Not necessary. It doesn't,t matter how high tech or sensitive the sats are you still have to know where to point them in real time and that will always be the limitations of sats. U can watch an island 24/7 because u know exactly where it is... On an object where you have no idea where it is, well u can't. Now once you locate it then yes you can track it but that's already after the fact. The ocean is very big my friend. Even a supercarrier is nothing but a grain of sand.

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In the context of the US, there's only a handful of carriers out there that are not "friendlies". I'm pretty sure these high value targets are always being tracked more or less. So anytime a carrier slips out of dock, it's being tracked. Gone are the days of the IJN amassing a strike force to Pearl covertly. Sure, inclement weather can assist the carrier in hiding but as you say, you still know roughly where to point the sats in a certain area. A carrier even at full steam can only cover a certain radius from last known position in an X amount of time. Let's not forget whatever network of subs out there are quietly watching too. I'm not saying a moving carrier doesn't have an advantage over a stationary island in this regard but I think it's overrated in 2015 and what's more important for a carrier is the ability to provide a base where one has no base in whatever part of the world.