PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

ansy1968 · Jun 24, 2020

ougoah said:
Ever since Duterte started refusing to toe Washington's line, the propaganda machine has been smearing him. It's now far less sinister than it was at the beginning of his presidency with stuff like those trumped up drug attitudes which were heavily misrepresented, but I guess Washington & co have realised he's not going to be so easily made into a puppet and have since lowered the offensive. Philippines has A LOT of American influence and continue to, which is why they're just waiting it out without antagonising the entire nation too much.

There's also plenty of infighting when it comes to American and western attitudes towards a coherent "China solution". There are those within their circles who are objective about China and do not wish to antagonise it too much either, a hedge against an eventually dominant China with leaders that hold old grudges and will come for those who have made their lives hell. On this latter point, I think they've gotten it wrong. But who knows. I know a few Chinese dudes that are scary bad. The ones in power generally attract a certain type of personality.

Hi ougoah

Your are correct ,AMerica has huge influence here and know how to operate it, they misread the mood of the people by supporting a candidate that will continue the failed policy of its predecessor. Duterte goes against the grain of Philippine traditional politics, He is trying to undermined /correct the malaise that is the govt INSTITUTION, that should serve and protect all, not the few elites. He, like TRUMP want to shake the SWAMP, that is why they like each other, and also the reason why when TRUMP won, Duterte was spare from threat of a coup.

Early on Duterte term, we are shock by his explicit used of fouled languages against foreign leaders (pres OBAMA) and govt institution. He used the controversy it produce to highlight the problem of the nation, to debate and to ask difficult question. In these way the public is enlightened and well aware of the national situation. He speak that ordinary people understand especially the poor who see in him their champion, Thats why the western media propaganda is not effective, he is more democratic than they want you to believed.

As I said previously Im worried if BIDEN won the presidency, there will be trouble in the SOUTH CHINA SEA.

Tyler · Jun 24, 2020

sndef888 said:
Does anyone else think China should continue reclaiming Fiery Cross Reef? Its has the most strategic position in the Spratlys, relatively far away from reefs controlled by other countries, located right in the middle of the SCS beside shipping lanes, and most importantly has the most potential for future reclamation.

Look at the satellite image of the reef. The eastern part, if reclaimed would be over 30 km squared, larger than Macau. And that's not including the unreclaimed western parts and the small tracts connecting the two.

It could be turned into an actual city with up to a few hundred thousand inhabitants like Maldives instead of just a military outpost, solidifying China's position in the area greatly.

They can just reclaim a couple of sq km per year. In 10 yrs they will have more than 50 sq km of land easily for various purposes, including naval bases where DDGs and subs of all types can be stationed.

Jiang ZeminFanboy · Jun 24, 2020

Peter2018 said:
They can just reclaim a couple of sq km per year. In 10 yrs they will have more than 50 sq km of land easily for various purposes, including naval bases where DDGs and subs of all types can be stationed.

The question is, is it worth it? Global warming is accelerating in decades there's a possibility that sea level will rise drastically. In few decades these naval bases might not be necessary considering the Chinese navy which might have a global presence. But the cities on these islands would need to be financed every year. We know that the Maldives are in trouble.

SilentObserver · Jun 24, 2020

sndef888 said:
Does anyone else think China should continue reclaiming Fiery Cross Reef? Its has the most strategic position in the Spratlys, relatively far away from reefs controlled by other countries, located right in the middle of the SCS beside shipping lanes, and most importantly has the most potential for future reclamation.

Look at the satellite image of the reef. The eastern part, if reclaimed would be over 30 km squared, larger than Macau. And that's not including the unreclaimed western parts and the small tracts connecting the two.

It could be turned into an actual city with up to a few hundred thousand inhabitants like Maldives instead of just a military outpost, solidifying China's position in the area greatly.

That's an interesting proposal. If China wants to increase the sustainability of being in the SCS, I think there should be strong economic forces to push enterprising civilians to inhabit and develop the islands. This is regardless of expansion or not of the islands.

Creating a Chinese Maldives would bring greater political will to defend the area even during economic and political turmoil on the mainland. This is important if we want to think beyond decades but centuries into the future. Political attitudes changes with time. If there's no development on these islands, there might come a time when the population in China views these islands just as money wasting sandbars with nothing worthwhile to defend. Might not be the best for China to pursue this anytime soon but eventually there might come a time when this makes sense.

A modern maritime version of the

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system would be a good start, with industries such as aquaculture, tourism, food processing, shipping, petrol chemical, etc. It's how China historically established itself on the frontiers even during the PRC era, most notably in

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, formerly in Heilongjiang and Inner Mongolia. A more independent fiscal system relies less on federal budgets, decreases need for micro management, and creates interdependence rather than being one sided. Populations are generally much more attached to lands/areas they depend on for their livelihoods and inhabit for generations. Being able to support a long term population, the islands would have non-governmental interests embedded. Tourists from the mainland would visit, be educated on the importance of the area, build memories, and establish legitimacy. Involving non-state actors would enable a wider and more robust tool box to extract utility from the region. There would be greater creativity in problem solving.

China already established its desire to extract

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, oil and gas from SCS. Islands could serve as support to these industries.

Tyler · Jun 25, 2020

ILikeChina said:
The question is, is it worth it? Global warming is accelerating in decades there's a possibility that sea level will rise drastically. In few decades these naval bases might not be necessary considering the Chinese navy which might have a global presence. But the cities on these islands would need to be financed every year. We know that the Maldives are in trouble.

When they reclaim land they can take into consideration higher water levels in the future, just by raising a few more feet.

Deino · Jun 25, 2020

Peter2018 said:
When they reclaim land they can take into consideration higher water levels in the future, just by raising a few more feet.

"Just my raising it a few feet"!

In you funny rain-bow-coloured, unicorn-filled fan-boy-dream-word everything seems to be sooooooooo easy??

Just chunk out 20 Type LHDs, build a fleet of 10-12 CVNs ... give us more bombers, fighters and just raise these islands a few feet.

OHM, please stop with this BS!

KYli · Jun 25, 2020

ILikeChina said:
The question is, is it worth it? Global warming is accelerating in decades there's a possibility that sea level will rise drastically. In few decades these naval bases might not be necessary considering the Chinese navy which might have a global presence. But the cities on these islands would need to be financed every year. We know that the Maldives are in trouble.

Maldive is at the sea level but these islands are above the sea level after reclamation. The sea level rises about 6-8 inches for the last century. Even if the rise in the sea level accelerates, these islands would still be fine for a very long time.

AndrewS · Jun 25, 2020

Peter2018 said:
They can just reclaim a couple of sq km per year. In 10 yrs they will have more than 50 sq km of land easily for various purposes, including naval bases where DDGs and subs of all types can be stationed.

There's no need to station navy ships on the SCS islands.

The Hainan bases are far better protected, and it's only 1days sailing from Hainan to the SCS island bases.

AndrewS · Jun 25, 2020

Deino said:
"Just my raising it a few feet"!

In you funny rain-bow-coloured, unicorn-filled fan-boy-dream-word everything seems to be sooooooooo easy??

Just chunk out 20 Type LHDs, build a fleet of 10-12 CVNs ... give us more bombers, fighters and just raise these islands a few feet.

OHM, please stop with this BS!

View attachment 61317

Deino, please tell me you're not starting with the falmpalm photos as well...

AndrewS · Jun 25, 2020

SilentObserver said:
That's an interesting proposal. If China wants to increase the sustainability of being in the SCS, I think there should be strong economic forces to push enterprising civilians to inhabit and develop the islands. This is regardless of expansion or not of the islands.

Creating a Chinese Maldives would bring greater political will to defend the area even during economic and political turmoil on the mainland. This is important if we want to think beyond decades but centuries into the future. Political attitudes changes with time. If there's no development on these islands, there might come a time when the population in China views these islands just as money wasting sandbars with nothing worthwhile to defend. Might not be the best for China to pursue this anytime soon but eventually there might come a time when this makes sense.

A modern maritime version of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
system would be a good start, with industries such as aquaculture, tourism, food processing, shipping, petrol chemical, etc. It's how China historically established itself on the frontiers even during the PRC era, most notably in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, formerly in Heilongjiang and Inner Mongolia. A more independent fiscal system relies less on federal budgets, decreases need for micro management, and creates interdependence rather than being one sided. Populations are generally much more attached to lands/areas they depend on for their livelihoods and inhabit for generations. Being able to support a long term population, the islands would have non-governmental interests embedded. Tourists from the mainland would visit, be educated on the importance of the area, build memories, and establish legitimacy. Involving non-state actors would enable a wider and more robust tool box to extract utility from the region. There would be greater creativity in problem solving.

China already established its desire to extract
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, oil and gas from SCS. Islands could serve as support to these industries.

If you're talking about long-term habitation over the decades/centuries, Taiping Island is a better option for an inhabited island in the SCS.

Yes, a South China Seas version of the Xinjiang BingTuan would make sense.

But I think it should be on a much smaller scale, and the reclaimed SCS islands are best limited to aquaculture, agriculture, tourism and helping the islands become more self-sufficient.

Plus the SCS islands have strategic value as they help the Chinese military protect the sea lanes carrying China's trade.

PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

ansy1968

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Tyler

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Jiang ZeminFanboy

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SilentObserver

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Tyler

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Deino

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KYli

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AndrewS

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AndrewS

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AndrewS

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