PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Someone I knew has recently been working on a project in the SCS and returned with some interesting stories which could add some historical perspective that is still relevant today to the disputes.

These are all second hand stories, so take them with as much salt as you see fit.

Firstly, if anyone has ever wondered why the Chinese station so many marines on their SCS outposts, especially when they were just tiny specs before the recent island building, that was because the Chinese marines had learnt some bitter lessons when they only stationed small detachments originally.

Until very recently, communications with China's SCS outposts was difficult and sporadic, never mind China's ability to effectively monitor what is going own down there.

There have been instances when Chinese supply ships arrived to find the entire garrison of an outpost murdered.

The PLA is convinced that it was the Vietnamese who did it, but lacks enough evidence to make a convincing case against them. Meaning they couldn't make a massive fuss diplomatically or publicly about it, so they only recourse was to remember and make sure they never allow themselves to be so exposed again. Hence the unusually large garrisons.

Another more recent issue has been sabotage.

Vietnamese divers often use civilian fishing boats as cover to get in position and then cut Chinese underwater cables.

A lot of the more publicised clashes between Chinese coast guard ships and Vietnamese fishing boats happened near Chinese underwater capable routes.

Because of the the past sabotage, the Chinese tend to take a hard line on Vietnamese fishing boats loitering near those cable routes an try to chase them off whenever they are spotted in those areas.

The more reluctant the Vietnamese fishing boats are in leaving the area, the more convinced the Chinese become that they are Vietnamese covert ops teams trying to cut cables, and the more hardline the Chinese tend to get in response.

The very violent clashes between Chinese coast guard and Vietnamese 'fishing boats' around the Chinese old rig recently was a perfect example where the Vietnamese sent in covert forces in the guise of civilian fishermen trying to sabotage Chinese equipment, and the Chinese Coast guard was having none of it.

As the Chinese deploy more and more assets into the SCS, much of it unmanned, expect these clashes to spread and intensify as the Vietnamese try to sabotage Chinese equipment and the Chinese coast guard tries to stop them.
 
J

jkliz

Junior Member
Registered Member
So everyone is talking about American hypocrisy but you guys do realize the Chinese media does the exact same thing on a daily basis right? I'm not saying this makes what Fox News is doing any better but I think its important to avoid a double standard and criticize media from every country when they screw up.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
jkliz said:
So everyone is talking about American hypocrisy but you guys do realize the Chinese media does the exact same thing on a daily basis right? I'm not saying this makes what Fox News is doing any better but I think its important to avoid a double standard and criticize media from every country when they screw up.
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Your point would be far more convincing if you had some actual examples to illustrate your point.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
jkliz said:
So everyone is talking about American hypocrisy but you guys do realize the Chinese media does the exact same thing on a daily basis right? I'm not saying this makes what Fox News is doing any better but I think its important to avoid a double standard and criticize media from every country when they screw up.
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Western media claim to be impartial and fair
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
jkliz said:
So everyone is talking about American hypocrisy but you guys do realize the Chinese media does the exact same thing on a daily basis right? I'm not saying this makes what Fox News is doing any better but I think its important to avoid a double standard and criticize media from every country when they screw up.
Click to expand...

I concur that double standards should be avoided and neither side is squeaky clean. But those of us on the forum long enough have seen a lot of "Chinese this, Chinese that" while others get a pass. So to point out what other media puts out in a heavily biased manner should be noted in my opinion.
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
@plawolf

That story about small detachments of Chinese marines on SCS islands being murdered is pretty incendiary.

Do you have any more details?
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
jkliz said:
So everyone is talking about American hypocrisy but you guys do realize the Chinese media does the exact same thing on a daily basis right? I'm not saying this makes what Fox News is doing any better but I think its important to avoid a double standard and criticize media from every country when they screw up.
Click to expand...

The Chinese media is actually a lot more careful about what they publish because they are controlled a lot more and they know that it needs to stand up to scrutiny.

In comparison, the US media is way more free-wheeling and automatically assumes the US is correct without thinking.
 
C

confusion

Junior Member
Registered Member
The problem is that it's not simply a question of the media 'screwing up'; it's a consist, systemic bias intended to present a distorted version of reality as the truth.

There's also a minor difference here: Russians and Chinese are generally pretty aware of media propaganda and are highly cynical when it comes to the media. Russians and Chinese know when they're being fed propaganda. When this happens in the West, its citizens are more likely to believe that it's simply an honest mistake by the media.

jkliz said:
So everyone is talking about American hypocrisy but you guys do realize the Chinese media does the exact same thing on a daily basis right? I'm not saying this makes what Fox News is doing any better but I think its important to avoid a double standard and criticize media from every country when they screw up.
Click to expand...

A perfect example of this distorted narrative is the recently changed media narrative on the status of Itu Aba/Taiping Island.

Prior to 2012, no one was really questioning the status of Itu Aba as an island. Most media reports had it firmly categorized as an island.

However, since 2015, the narrative has suddenly changed, and there's now an aggressive push in the media to call Taiping Island a rock. Why is this so? Well, this new narrative just 'happens' to coincide with the Filipino legal claims being presented in UNCLOS. To promote this new narrative, multiple media outlets in the West are now parroting this line, which is essentially a line coming straight from the Filipino legal defence team and its US backers.

Let's look at this 2016 article by NPR:
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A Primer On The Complicated Battle For The South China Sea
south-china-sea_custom-f23ba45a4a1f8402f76efa581b9bdf76bf5c8dfa-s1100-c15.jpg


Taiwan's government in March flew journalists to Taiping Island, an all-but-invisible patch of sand in the Spratly Island formation. Taipei wants to prove the formation is "not just a rock," but an island capable of sustaining human life.
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NPR calls Itu Aba an "all-but-invisible patch of sand". This is a ridiculous distortion of the truth. Any picture of Itu Aba can easily refute this absurd claim - heck, even the picture they've provided is a direct refutation of this ludicrous claim! Any visit to Itu Aba can also easily refute this claim - in fact, many Western journalists were invited to visit Taiwan earlier this year. Visiting the island didn't change the narrative at all - the Western media is insistent on pushing its newly found stance that Itu Aba is merely a rock. The truth isn't going to change the story.

In contrast, this is a 2016 piece that NPR did on Thitu Island, the largest of the Filipino-held island. Never once does this article question the status of Thitu Island. Every mention of Thitu Island refers to it as an island.
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In The Tussle For The South China Sea, A Mayor Tries To Protect His Island
Pag-asa island, part of the disputed Spratly group of islands in the South China Sea, is claimed by both the Philippines and China. It's the only inhabited island in the Spratlys.

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Today, things are different, as Bito-onon finds himself and his islands on the front line of a territorial dispute between China and its neighbors.

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The area in dispute includes Pag-asa, the island that Bito-onon calls home, and that's claimed by the Philippines as well. It's the only inhabited island in the Spratlys.

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At the end of December, China demanded that the Philippines withdraw from Pag-asa — which the Chinese call Thitu — after a group of Filipino protesters traveled to the island to draw attention to China's actions in the region.
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